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Started By
Message
re: Wash Post:Antimalarial drug touted by Trump is linked to increased risk of death in corona
Posted on 5/22/20 at 8:49 am to tigerinDC09
Posted on 5/22/20 at 8:49 am to tigerinDC09
quote:You do realize the authority you’re appealing to has a terrible history of approving unsafe drugs.. as well as ... failing to approve safe, effective, and cheap drugs available in other countries,, right?
FDA has advised against doctors prescribing it for covid outside of hospital or clinical trials.
Posted on 5/22/20 at 8:50 am to tigerinDC09
quote:
Good luck getting this drug in a hospital if u get covid. No self respecting emergency doc will prescribe this now.
I have friends and relatives who are doctors and are taking/have taken hydroxychloroquine.
I know of one person who tested positive last week in Louisiana and is taking hydroxychloroquine.
They are all fine.
Posted on 5/22/20 at 8:50 am to the808bass
quote:
I’m sure you have a link for that.
Oh, of course, you know me pretty well:
LINK /
quote:
Yet, a number of those infected develop heart-related problems either out of the blue or as a complication of preexisting cardiac disease. A report from the early days of the epidemic described the extent of cardiac injury among 41 patients hospitalized with COVID-19 in Wuhan, China: Five, or 12 percent, had signs of cardiovascular damage. These patients had both elevated levels of cardiac troponin — a protein released in the blood by the injured heart muscle — and abnormalities on electrocardiograms and heart ultrasounds. Since then, other reports have affirmed that cardiac injury can be part of coronavirus-induced harm. Moreover, some reports detail clinical scenarios in which patients’ initial symptoms were cardiovascular rather than respiratory in nature.
Posted on 5/22/20 at 8:51 am to Taxing Authority
quote:
You do realize the authority you’re appealing to has a terrible history of approving unsafe drugs.. as well as ... failing to approve safe, effective, and cheap drugs available in other countries,, right?
Well, that, and, by definition, if I say, "I don't advise you do that"...………..I'm saying, "you can, I just don't advise it"
So, doctors get to make the call.
ALSO. It ain't no accident that DC is ignoring that HIS OWN LINK shows that this particular study says NOTHING about using the drug in combination.
DC just skips right over that reality.
Posted on 5/22/20 at 8:52 am to tigerinDC09
quote:Ypu’re about to be embarrassed—again.
Oh, of course, you know me pretty well:
This post was edited on 5/22/20 at 8:53 am
Posted on 5/22/20 at 8:52 am to tigerinDC09
Can you post anything else besides far let winger rags?
Posted on 5/22/20 at 8:52 am to tigerinDC09
quote:
Good luck getting this drug in a hospital if u get covid. No self respecting emergency doc will prescribe this now.
It will continue to be prescribed ALL OVER THE NATION in combination.
You know nothing
Posted on 5/22/20 at 8:54 am to NC_Tigah
Perhaps not, or they should have noticed this statement as well:
“We also note that although we evaluated the relationship of the drug treatment regimens with the occurrence of ventricular arrhythmias, we did not measure QT intervals, nor did we stratify the arrhythmia pattern (such as torsade de pointes).” Meaning they did not conclusively identify whether the types of arrhythmias experienced were actually the ones associated with chloroquine/HCQ use. I also couldn’t find any mention of whether or not those arrhythmias were the actual COD in any of the cases evaluated.
That aside, the “control” group was also measurably less severely ill at baseline and had lower rates of multiple comorbidities across the board, which would automatically predispose then to better outcomes. So the foundational basis was somewhat compromised right out of the gate, even if it’s difficult to say with certainty how profoundly that would diminish the validity of the results.
Ultimately it’s an interesting analysis that suggests a need for further study. At the very least the idea that HCQ might be contraindicated in certain groups could be borne out in time. But to read the Washington Post’s take, you’d think that potential confounders are only an issue with studies that show a benefit.
“We also note that although we evaluated the relationship of the drug treatment regimens with the occurrence of ventricular arrhythmias, we did not measure QT intervals, nor did we stratify the arrhythmia pattern (such as torsade de pointes).” Meaning they did not conclusively identify whether the types of arrhythmias experienced were actually the ones associated with chloroquine/HCQ use. I also couldn’t find any mention of whether or not those arrhythmias were the actual COD in any of the cases evaluated.
That aside, the “control” group was also measurably less severely ill at baseline and had lower rates of multiple comorbidities across the board, which would automatically predispose then to better outcomes. So the foundational basis was somewhat compromised right out of the gate, even if it’s difficult to say with certainty how profoundly that would diminish the validity of the results.
Ultimately it’s an interesting analysis that suggests a need for further study. At the very least the idea that HCQ might be contraindicated in certain groups could be borne out in time. But to read the Washington Post’s take, you’d think that potential confounders are only an issue with studies that show a benefit.
Posted on 5/22/20 at 8:54 am to ShortyRob
quote:Ya but we all know they are making those decisions based on what Trump said.
So, doctors get to make the call.
Most of the docs in my family take advice directly from him.
Posted on 5/22/20 at 8:54 am to ShortyRob
quote:
ALSO. It ain't no accident that DC is ignoring that HIS OWN LINK shows that this particular study says NOTHING about using the drug in combination.
wtf are you even talking about
quote:
Nearly 15,000 of the 96,000 patients in the analysis were treated with hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine alone or in combination with a type of antibiotics known as a macrolide, such as azithromycin, within 48 hours of their diagnosis.
The difference between patients who received the antimalarials and those who did not was striking.
Posted on 5/22/20 at 8:55 am to tigerinDC09
quote:
Good luck getting this drug in a hospital if u get covid. No self respecting emergency doc will prescribe this now.
Posted on 5/22/20 at 8:55 am to tigerinDC09
Listen thief, you are getting beaten soundly. Take a damn break and stop stealing.
Posted on 5/22/20 at 8:55 am to tigerinDC09
Oh. I thought you had a link that tied hydroxychloroquine’s danger to the cardiac issues associated with Covid from a doctor.
Posted on 5/22/20 at 8:55 am to Taxing Authority
quote:
Ya but we all know they are making those decisions based on what Trump said.
Exactly
If I were in a Doc's office and they implied they were treating me based on something ANY politician in this discussion said, I'd leave skid marks in his office on my way out.
Posted on 5/22/20 at 8:56 am to the808bass
quote:
Oh. I thought you had a link that tied hydroxychloroquine’s danger to the cardiac issues associated with Covid from a doctor.
You noticed that too.
Damn. Two complete link fails in one morning.
Posted on 5/22/20 at 8:57 am to tigerinDC09
There's an idea floating around that HCQ + azithromycin + zinc is really what's efficacious and safe, so this study won't settle it for the true believers in that combo.
Posted on 5/22/20 at 8:58 am to LuckyTiger
quote:
Hydroxychloroquine is prescribed over 40K times a day
Saw the Head of the VA say that they give 42,000 doses a day just in their system of VA Hospitals and in overseas troops. That’s just a small fraction of daily doses IMO, and with the Wuhan virus, it may be an order of 10-20 times that...
Posted on 5/22/20 at 8:59 am to Adam Banks
Ok. Good stuff. It does look like they tried to control for a difference in baseline. Thanks for pointing that out.
The outcomes are head-scratching. I really don’t believe you’re going to replicate a 45% increase in mortality in a double-blinded study. It would be amazing, frankly.
The outcomes are head-scratching. I really don’t believe you’re going to replicate a 45% increase in mortality in a double-blinded study. It would be amazing, frankly.
Posted on 5/22/20 at 8:59 am to the808bass
quote:
Oh. I thought you had a link that tied hydroxychloroquine’s danger to the cardiac issues associated with Covid from a doctor.
if Covid is causing adverse heart effects then wouldn't adding hcq in cause complications vs someone without Covid? That's the point i'm making.
Posted on 5/22/20 at 9:00 am to boomtown143
Liberals cause more death than any stinkin' antimalarial drug...
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