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Posted on 12/26/24 at 8:51 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
You're not so subtly implying I'm racist
I did no such thing.
Again, you're interpreting having to explain your beliefs as an ad hom, which is telling.
Posted on 12/27/24 at 1:58 am to 50_Tiger
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This is a revealing take from @VivekGRamaswamy
, and probably (judging from other comments from others on X and my own extensive personal experience with Indian Americans in Silicon Valley) fairly representative.
Before I get into why it is fundamentally wrong in its most important particulars, let me give it its limited due: Yes, the most talented American kids probably need to work harder academically. Our public school system, especially, is generally a disaster, which I can say with some confidence having five kids currently in it We need to fix it, and universal school choice will do a lot to get us there.
However, having competed successfully with the top of the talent stack (my wife and I have five top-tier Ivy League degrees between us) and having seen what that looks like up close and made the choice to largely opt-out for our own five kids, I think Vivek seems to have a misapprehension about the roots of American success.
I knew lots of parents who made their kids *grind* and yes, I did look down on them and did not aspire to that for my own kids. I did this for many reasons-- first, I saw the massive burnout among such kids, even the "successful" ones who I went to school with. I didn't want that to happen to my kids. A career is an important part of most people's lives. But it is not, with rare, rare exceptions, life itself. And you don't need to train most people, even at the top of your talent stack, to be those rare, rare exceptions.
Second, countries that push children to an extreme, like South Korea and China, have miserable kids and collapsing fertility. And the next generation is ultimately what we're all playing for.
Third, the elite culture of these countries, (including India, where I have lived) often encourages ruthlessness, lack of ethics, and rampant cheating in a desperate quest to get ahead. This ultimately bleeds over to the professional world, where IP theft and research fraud from countries like China is rampant. Of course, we're not perfect in this regard either, but we're a heck of a lot better than our competition and it's a key comparative advantage for America.
Fourth, I don't think the kind of training that Vivek seems to aspire to has created the dynamism that powered success in Silicon Valley or anywhere else in America. Yes, some of the people from grind culture played useful technical roles-- but these companies were often founded by brilliant dropouts and iconoclasts-- not the guy who always listened to his teacher, studies eight hours a day, and did #1 on the test.
America's willingness to embrace dynamism and risk-- to have a society in which the rule of the law is honored (though Democrats have badly eroded this in recent years) and our unique culture, ultimately derived from Europe but strengthened with our own unique pioneering American qualities, has made us so successful.
It's why far, far more people want to come here than anywhere else, and why our tech companies are far more successful than those anywhere else-- and this was true before we had mass H-1Bs-- and I am confident it will be true after we shut the door on this ill-advised policy.
What Vivek is proposing, however sincerely intentioned, would destroy the things that actually make America great.
Posted on 12/27/24 at 5:13 am to Penrod
quote:
message is that America used to raise kids correctly and now they don’t, so…Make America Great Again.
His message is the one I've preached on here for years. We don't have the native workers for massive economic expansion.
Posted on 12/27/24 at 5:31 am to SCLibertarian
quote:
How is he wrong? American pop culture is idiocracy personified.
Sorry, but you think Americans are lazy & retarded because we like sports & Friends reruns?
Any argument that Indian culture is superior to American culture is totally outrageous. No one in the entire world thinks this at all.
Posted on 12/27/24 at 5:34 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
We don't have the native workers for massive economic expansion.
If economic expansion means a country full of pajeets - what's the point? Why should anyone want to massively expand the economy if it only helps foreigners?
Posted on 12/27/24 at 5:35 am to AlterDWI
Now Rolling Stone is hyping this bullshite.
perfect
perfect
Posted on 12/27/24 at 5:40 am to AlterDWI
quote:
If economic expansion means a country full of pajeets - what's the point? Why should anyone want to massively expand the economy if it only helps foreigners?
We, the people, are not important to the elite.
We are just cattle in the fields, waiting to be milked or slaughtered. The elite will always buy more cattle.
We have an image of who we are as Americans, and then theres the reality.
Posted on 12/27/24 at 6:04 am to AlterDWI
quote:
If economic expansion means a country full of pajeets - what's the point?
This is a question I've been asking.
Its impossible to "grow" the economy enough to get out of this fiscal mess.
Posted on 12/27/24 at 6:05 am to AlterDWI
quote:
Sorry, but you think Americans are lazy & retarded because we like sports & Friends reruns?
More than accomplishing things, yes.
Posted on 12/27/24 at 6:06 am to Cuthbert13
quote:
We, the people, are not important to the elite.
We are just cattle in the fields, waiting to be milked or slaughtered. The elite will always buy more cattle.
We have an image of who we are as Americans, and then theres the reality.
Pretty much. "Society" cant be saved, the best people can do is cling to their families and individual goals.
Individuals over society.
Posted on 12/27/24 at 6:15 am to RogerTheShrubber
Please stop your doomer comments. They aren’t true, aren’t helpful, just sad displays to be honest.
Posted on 12/27/24 at 6:16 am to Richleau
quote:
Please stop your doomer comments
These arent doomer comments. These are normal, conservative comments.
Posted on 12/27/24 at 6:25 am to 50_Tiger
As pointed out, offshoring saves roughly 60% in salary and by & large, these people are technically skilled, that's it. They're not decision makers. I agree with Vivek's sentiment regarding culture, but I think his perspective is a little bit flawed.
The USA has never been a "math olympiad" culture. Let's say India has that culture. Now compare what the USA has invented, developed, etc. and compare with India. Or all of Asia for that matter. There's more to it than simply being good at math or engineering.
The USA has never been a "math olympiad" culture. Let's say India has that culture. Now compare what the USA has invented, developed, etc. and compare with India. Or all of Asia for that matter. There's more to it than simply being good at math or engineering.
Posted on 12/27/24 at 6:36 am to RogerTheShrubber
No. You are trolling and it is obvious. Conversation and debate is important. Now the focus is on the disastrous H1B policy and how it is being abused. Reform is coming.
Posted on 12/27/24 at 6:38 am to Richleau
quote:
No. You are trolling and it is obvious.
Posted on 12/27/24 at 6:40 am to Naked Bootleg
quote:
The USA has never been a "math olympiad" culture. Let's say India has that culture. Now compare what the USA has invented, developed, etc. and compare with India. Or all of Asia for that matter. There's more to it than simply being good at math or engineering.
The USA traditionally has had visionaries, people who could offer products, ideas and services that make the world a better place.
Posted on 12/27/24 at 6:43 am to RogerTheShrubber
My point entirely.
Posted on 12/27/24 at 9:01 am to AlterDWI
quote:
Any argument that Indian culture is superior to American culture is totally outrageous. No one in the entire world thinks this at all.
It’s an excuse. They want cheaper labor. Everything else is bullshite. It’s always about the money.
Posted on 12/27/24 at 9:03 am to babyray
quote:
It’s always about the money.
That's how capitalism works
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