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Started By
Message
re: Trump considering full pardon for late boxer Jack Johnson
Posted on 4/21/18 at 10:40 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
Posted on 4/21/18 at 10:40 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
He was convicted because he was banging white women
Yes.
quote:
the Mann Act was just a way to get him like Al Capone and tax evasion.
No. Capone's conviction was very much legitimate. Johnson, while he actually did what he was accused of, did it before the Mann Act passed, and therefore didn't break the law.
0
Posted on 4/21/18 at 10:45 pm to troyt37
quote:
why not???
Because it was bullshite? The girls were of age, or they would have got him for that. He wasn't holding them against their will. Can you imagine hauling your side piece to Vegas only to be charged with the Mann Act? That's essentially what they got him for.
that's the point I was trying to make in two words...
the Mann Act shouldn't apply to anyone over 21 (a good case could be made for 18)
Posted on 4/21/18 at 10:49 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Cruisin' down the street in my ONE-FO
Posted on 4/21/18 at 10:55 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
Brother dated scads of white women
Would stuff heavy gauze bandages down his tights to fatten his "reputation" which may have served two purposes, as his wife eventually left him for a horse jockey. True Story!
This post was edited on 4/21/18 at 10:57 pm
Posted on 4/21/18 at 11:01 pm to Walt OReilly
He's gonna pardon the guy for grabbing pussy, basically.
Heads are now exploding on the Far Left...
Heads are now exploding on the Far Left...
Posted on 4/21/18 at 11:12 pm to Jake_LaMotta
quote:
Johnson had boring decisions or losses against. Johnson the person was interesting his fights for the most part were boring.
That's true...they say he was like the Mayweather of HW boxers.
Ring Magazine, in an article, The 50 greatest heavyweights of all time (1998 Holiday Issue p 32), said that Johnson was “years ahead of his time stylistically, he revolutionized boxing footwork, defense, and the concept of ring generalship.”
Consider that Nat Fleischer, the founder of Ring Magazine, who saw Johnson fight and those up to the Ali era, said, in his book Black Dynamite Vol 4., p. 6), “Jack Johnson boxed on his toes, could block from most any angle, was lightning fast on his feet, could feint an opponent into knots…he possessed everything a champion could hope for punch, speed, brains, cleverness, boxing ability and sharp-shooting.”
Fleischer also reported in 1958, that Johnson’s “mastery of ring science, his ability to block, counter, and feint, are still unexcelled.”
Jack Johnson is widely regarded as the greatest defensive heavyweight of all time.
Posted on 4/22/18 at 12:38 am to TexasTiger80
quote:
Trump proving he isnt racist like all the damn libs say he is
Posted on 4/22/18 at 6:00 am to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
Johnson was “years ahead of his time stylistically, he revolutionized boxing footwork, defense, and the concept of ring generalship.”
quote:
Jack Johnson is widely regarded as the greatest defensive heavyweight of all time.
So people really want us to think that the guy who basically invented defensive boxing 100 years ago is the best to have ever done it? Sorry but that is complete and utter bullshite and anyone with any ability to think would agree. Maybe he was the best to ever do it compared to other fighters of his day but there is zero, and I mean ZERO, chance he is the greatest defensive heavyweight ever.
Edit: Typo
This post was edited on 4/22/18 at 6:02 am
Posted on 4/22/18 at 6:36 am to texridder
quote:
Trump wants to show everyone how easy it is for him to pardon someone.
Good! Trump needs a few pardons for a warmup so he can be ready pardon the Trump associates that are being railroaded by this sham SC.
Posted on 4/22/18 at 9:27 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
Trump's wasting his time if he thinks that anybody in mass media will say a kind word about him.
Posted on 4/22/18 at 9:38 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
When is he gonna pardon Shoeless Joe Jackson?
Posted on 4/22/18 at 10:36 am to burdhead
quote:
.what he did is not even a crime, nowadays...
I know the Mann Act is never used these days but was it repealed?
Posted on 4/22/18 at 12:17 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
Jack Johnson is widely regarded as the greatest defensive heavyweight of all time.
Meh - Joe Louis, Archie Moore and Muhammad Ali fought in the heavyweight division.
Johnson was ahead of his time, for sure, particularly the size/speed/skill/power combination that he had that was really rare for that time, but GOAT defensive heavyweight? Not even Top 5.
Posted on 4/22/18 at 12:32 pm to Ace Midnight
Likely isn’t even top 20 defensively. Johnson relied a lot on the clinch and holding and mastered it just like Sullivan and Jeffries had before him. When Johnson fought Willard who he couldn’t overpower by clinching or grappling he got knocked spark out by a guy that was other than his size pretty much devoid of any skill. If you look at Johnson’s opposition especially when he was champion they were physically much smaller in size and strength than he was. Now that isn’t Johnson’s fault but I likely wouldn’t have Johnson beating many of the champions that came after him. It would be comical seeing him in there with someone his own size who could punch and knew how to fight like Louis, Liston, Ali, Foreman, Frazier, or even a Max Baer. Johnson would get slaughtered. Dempsey would slaughter him with speed, movement and savage power. Heck I am not sure Johnson would be able to beat a guy like Gene Tunney or Floyd Patterson even. Those guys wouldn’t be like fighting Tommy Burns and Stanley Ketchel I can assure you of that.
Posted on 4/22/18 at 12:41 pm to Jake_LaMotta
quote:
Now that isn’t Johnson’s fault but I likely wouldn’t have Johnson beating many of the champions that came after him.
This is almost always true, though. I mean, Louis had a skillset that would have made him dangerous (at least in his prime) against the champs through the 70s, and a prime Ali could stay with anyone for 8 rounds and then it would come down to willpower and "manning up" - which a prime Ali would also have an advantage.
But Rocky and Frazier? Much as I love those guys, I just think the height and reach of almost all subsequent champs not named Tyson would have over them and I think the swarmers would have fought valiantly, but to no avail.
quote:
Heck I am not sure Johnson would be able to beat a guy like Gene Tunney or Floyd Patterson even.
I just don't think Johnson moved well enough to handle guys of that caliber.
Posted on 4/22/18 at 2:20 pm to Jake_LaMotta
quote:
Stanley Ketchel
I've seen more exciting fighters at family reunions.
Check out Papke's shorts.
Posted on 4/22/18 at 10:51 pm to lsu480
I was just quoting boxing historians.
Who saw him live and then covered boxing for the next 50 years.
People who reasearch this stuff. And spend their lives analyzing tape and film and impact and ability.
I doubt you have done as much research as the aforementioned author I mentioned in his quote.
This lazy argument that everything that happens later is better is just lazy.
So every basketball player that gets drafted tomorrow is better than Michael Jordan?
Who saw him live and then covered boxing for the next 50 years.
People who reasearch this stuff. And spend their lives analyzing tape and film and impact and ability.
I doubt you have done as much research as the aforementioned author I mentioned in his quote.
This lazy argument that everything that happens later is better is just lazy.
So every basketball player that gets drafted tomorrow is better than Michael Jordan?
Posted on 4/23/18 at 10:48 am to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
I was just quoting boxing historians.
quote:
I doubt you have done as much research as the aforementioned author I mentioned in his quote.
Appeal to authority is not super compelling. I can watch the same film and compare stats, fights, opponents, etc.
quote:
This lazy argument that everything that happens later is better is just lazy.
I hinted as much in my partial concurrence. There is little question that Joe Louis - in his prime - was better than a lot of guys who may have followed him - 25 title defenses, FFS. Ditto for Ali.
But to argue that a guy who fought in the bareknuckles era - who didn't have anything like the conditioning, training or nutrition science of just 50 or 60 years later, much less today, is the "greatest" defensive heavyweight of all time is just nostalgia run wild - there is also a bit of virtue signaling here, as Johnson had legitimate beefs with the honky white establishment. I can concede that he did. I can concede that he was a great fighter - of his era - without engaging in superlatives that damage my own objectivity and credibility.
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