re: The medical examiner who just testified was devastating to the prosecution

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Yes. I just don’t agree that it is indisputable fact that Chauvin was not neglectful and therefore he will not be found guilty of such by any jury unless that jury ignores fact.

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To me it's also hard to argue neglect given they recognized his health condition and called ems to treat him.

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To me it's also hard to argue neglect given they recognized his health condition and called ems to treat him.

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This content from the link above goes into that:

“ "If it’s a critical situation, you have to do both” – call for an ambulance and provide first aid such as CPR, which involves chest compressions to return blood flow to the body and heart, said Minneapolis police officer Nicole Mackenzie, an EMT who conducts first aid education for officers.”

“ Lt. Richard Zimmerman, the department's most veteran officer, told jurors last week that officers need to provide medical assistance before an ambulance arrives. "There is absolutely an obligation to provide medical intervention as soon as necessary," he said.”


edit: The department policy is that obligation does not end with contacting EMS. But whether it is a crime is another matter.

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Failing to do more than that could be neglect.

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The danger here is defining imperfect behavior as criminal, just because there is a bad outcome.

Otherwise, you'll have a crime everytime someone dies in police custody because they could always have "done more".

Like Jeffrey Epstein, for example - when he *ahem* "killed himself" the facility and all employees should have faced criminal charges based on your speculative standard that it could be neglect because they failed to do more.

I don't know if it was on some of the bodycam footage or the transcript, but I thought Chauvin confirmed at least once, if not twice, that EMS was enroute and that Floyd was under arrest before taking physical control of him. Seemed professional on the context of that moment.

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The danger here is defining imperfect behavior as criminal, just because there is a bad outcome. Otherwise, you'll have a crime everytime someone dies in police custody because they could always have "done more".

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Violating department policy, failure to do as trained would be more than merely “imperfect” behavior.

It isn’t that he did not do enough after EMS was contacted, it’s that he did nothing. Whether that is a crime,I am unsure.

This content regarding civil suits is interesting:

“The administrator of White’s estate filed a suit against the City of Columbus claiming a violation of White’s due process rights as a result of the officers’ deliberate indifference to his serious medical needs. The Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals rejected the claim holding that an officer discharges his constitutional duty by seeking prompt medical assistance. According to the Sixth Circuit:
[A]n officer is charged with providing a detainee with prompt medical attention. However, this attention does not require the officer to intervene personally. Imposing an absolute requirement for an officer to do so ignores the reality that such medical situations often call for quick decisions to be made under rapidly evolving conditions. As long as the officer acts promptly in summoning aid, he or she has not deliberately disregarded the serious medical need of the detainee even if he or she has not exhausted every medical option.

Other circuits are in agreement with the Sixth Circuit that an officer discharges his responsibility to a detainee by summoning medical care. In Maddox v. City of Los Angeles,64 Los Angeles police officers came upon Donald Roy Wilson standing naked in the middle of a busy street.65 They believed that he had taken Phencyclidine (PCP).66 An altercation ensued when they attempted to take Wilson into custody.67 After Wilson became belligerent while riding in the police car to the hospital, an officer applied a chokehold for twenty to thirty seconds.68 When they reached the hospital the officers could not find a pulse.69 Although they were trained in CPR the officers did not attempt any First Aid.70 After he arrived at the hospital, the medical staff commenced CPR on Wilson, but he did not respond and was pronounced dead.

His estate filed suit against the City of Los Angeles and various police officers for their failure to render First Aid after they applied the chokehold.72 The Ninth Circuit held that “[d]ue process requires that police officers seek the necessary medical attention for a detainee when he or she has been injured while being apprehended by either promptly summoning the necessary medical help or by taking the injured detainee to a hospital.”

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The court rulings in civil suits suggest that Chauvin is off the hook once EMS has been contacted.


link to above quotes:

LINK

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Keeping your knee on a suspects back that just fought 3 grown men to keep from being put into a police car is called smart not neglect.

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He fought.
He lost.
He was handcuffed behind his back, and lying on his gut.

The situation had changed.
Reaction to the situation should also have changed.

I can't say (no one can) if fat man died 100% of an OD, or 99%, or 41%. I can say you open yourself up to a charge when you pin someone that doesn't require pinning, and they expire.

Did pinning fat man make the mob disperse?

Tobin calculated Floyd's respiratory rate at 22 breaths per minute, within normal range.
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Ok, so if Floyd was actually in fear for his life and couldn’t breathe, why was his breathing rate “normal”? He was either lying or the “normal” rate was due to the elevated rate of fear from what would have been the low Fentanyl rate. You could ask two different “experts” and get two different answers.

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But Floys' respirators rate was observably fine. Floyd died from not getting enough O2 in the breaths that he did take

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lol, chauvins knee kept him from absorbing O2 from the breaths he was clearly intaking into his lungs? fricking fairy-tale

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But it could be negligence in rendering aid, for a civil suit. Knowing how Floyd died, Floyd dying at all, is not necessary for there to have been negligent failure to render aid.

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Wrong. It's actually necessary when the prosecution DID NOT FILE "failure to render aid" charges and went for the murder and manslaughter charges instead, lol.

Facts matter. Charges have definitions. Those definitions have criteria to meet.

The prosecution probably could have got him with some form of failing to render aid, but that's completely irrelevant here, since they're charging Chauvin with something else entirely.

So no, it cannot be "failure to render aid" since he's not being charged with that at all.