re: The medical examiner who just testified was devastating to the prosecution

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He was paid to make an argument that the pulmonology community immediately took to social media to dismantle. Twitter was a whose who of pulmonologists and critical care physicians, many of whom believe Chauvin to be guilty, saying many of his conclusions were unfounded and unknowable. For example, his claim about ventricular arrhythmias always producing an immediate loss of consciousness is just patently false and everyone with internal medicine training knows that. It’s just simply not true. This was the case with several of his other claims, including that it’s reasonable to believe anyone would have died in that circumstance.

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I tried to explain this in the big thread. The pulmonologist’s testimony was designed to sound impressive to the lay person but to someone with knowledge of anatomy and physiology it was a bunc of bullshite.

Couple of questions for you Roger

1. Do you believe his theory that the hypopharynx was compressed and didn’t leave any damage because it’s a soft structure? The hypopharynx can’t be compressed from the back of the neck

2. Would you agree there is no way he could count 22 respirations a minute from the cell phone video?

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Personally, I think the left lateral recumbent position probably WOULD have been used, if people hadn't crowded around and starting behaving aggressively while the police were trying to deal with this very large and uncooperative man.

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The crowd definitely complicated a speedy arrest/detention, which could only have sped up EMS response and potential help for GF - I don't think there is any question about that.


Yet none of the crowd is on trial - just Derek Chauvin.

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panicked George Floyd proclaiming "oh noooo I ate too many druggggssss"


This is not a thing that happened.

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Uh, yes it is.

This is a political trial. All facts were known at the time of indictment. The facts mean nothing in this case. Feelings matter. Guilty verdict incoming. I don’t like it a bit, but it’s happening despite the evidence.

The question people who cry (rightly) for small Government need to ask is this,

Should the state be so big that an arrest for a fake twenty means a knee on the neck?

And if so why, when the federal government can literally print 4 trillion out of thin air?

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This jury is not letting him walk.

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If they do not, there should be rioting and looting by the good guys.

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1. Do you believe his theory that the hypopharynx was compressed and didn’t leave any damage because it’s a soft structure? The hypopharynx can’t be compressed from the back of the neck

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In someone with otherwise normal anatomy, you would expect soft tissue damage if someone were compressing the neck from the back to the extent that it caused airway compromise. You can do it but not without seriously damaging the anatomical structures in the neck. If there’s any argument to be made for pressure causing respiratory compromise, it would be from thoracic compression impeding the ability of his chest to expand. The knee on his neck is really a red herring, medically speaking. That’s not what killed him regardless of how he died.

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2. Would you agree there is no way he could count 22 respirations a minute from the cell phone video?

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I actually tried it myself last night out of curiosity when my wife asked the same question

I got a range of around 20-24 but it’s really impossible to nail it down exactly because he’s turning his head and intermittently speaking/gasping. I personally don’t see how you can give a specific number from the video. To Tobin’s credit though, he is breathing far faster than you would expect for an opiate overdose even with concurrent meth use. I have said all along he died of a cardiac arrhythmia and not respiratory arrest from an opiate overdose, given how high his tolerance clearly must have been to have been functional with that amount of fentanyl in his system.

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but that is not jury nullification.

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Yes, it is

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A jury's knowing and deliberate rejection of the evidence or refusal to apply the law either because the jury wants to send a message about some social issue that is larger than the case itself, or because the result dictated by law is contrary to the jury's sense of justice, morality, or fairness.

Jury nullification is a discretionary act, and is not a legally sanctioned function of the jury. It is considered to be inconsistent with the jury's duty to return a verdict based solely on the law and the facts of the case. The jury does not have a right to nulification, and counsel is not permitted to present the concept of jury nullification to the jury.

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See U.S. v. Thomas, 116 F.3d 606 (2d Cir. 1997).

It’s a lot easier to wrap your mind around that it can work both ways if you stop and think what the word nullification means

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Not sure Murder 3 applies

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Murder 3 in Minnesota is what is known as “depraved heart murder”, which I don’t see applying to this case at all. Depraved heart murder is when you fire a gun aimlessly into a crowd and someone dies or you drop a brick off an overpass that kills a random driver, for example. It’s a callous and depraved act with nonspecific intent but that led to the death of another.

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Would you agree there is no way he could count 22 respirations a minute from the cell phone video?

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The defense should use a cell phone from 25ft away to film several people breathing at various recorded rates, recall the doctor to the stand, then have him testify as to their respiratory rates. I suspect it would justifiably end his credibility.