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Message
The idiocy of canceling student debt
Posted on 2/9/21 at 12:15 am
Posted on 2/9/21 at 12:15 am
This is proof if you put a bunch of politicians in a room with an anvil and nothing else, if you came back an hour later that anvil would be torn into pieces. What do you call the opposite of the Midas touch - everything you touch instead of turning to gold, it turns to manure?
College in the United States is 2X as expensive as first world average. Let's be honest, it's driven by these schools being bloated adult day care centers, the extraordinary amount of administrators instead of teachers, junk core classes that should already be covered in K-12, wasteful building projects ripping down buildings with 30 years of life left for new ones just to move up bogus ranking systems, and of course the government backed loans. I would say for every dollar invested, there's probably 50 cents of actual substance. And of that 50 cents of real value, a lot of it can be delivered for a fraction of the cost online.
You would think a competent society and government would address that first before just redistributing wealth from truck drivers, welders, farmers, etc. But there's my mistake right there in hoping for that
But hey, solving problems is hard work. Why bother when when you can just leave it unsolved and have hard working blue collar people bear the burden?
College in the United States is 2X as expensive as first world average. Let's be honest, it's driven by these schools being bloated adult day care centers, the extraordinary amount of administrators instead of teachers, junk core classes that should already be covered in K-12, wasteful building projects ripping down buildings with 30 years of life left for new ones just to move up bogus ranking systems, and of course the government backed loans. I would say for every dollar invested, there's probably 50 cents of actual substance. And of that 50 cents of real value, a lot of it can be delivered for a fraction of the cost online.
You would think a competent society and government would address that first before just redistributing wealth from truck drivers, welders, farmers, etc. But there's my mistake right there in hoping for that
But hey, solving problems is hard work. Why bother when when you can just leave it unsolved and have hard working blue collar people bear the burden?
This post was edited on 2/9/21 at 12:17 am
14
Posted on 2/9/21 at 12:21 am to Browncd81
I'm right there with you. It seems very achievable for the federal government to declare "to be eligible for federal funds, your total cost of attendance can't increase more than X% each year"
That X could be tied to inflation, a set percentage, anything. But the spiraling costs have to be controlled. Letting students rack up dozens of thousands in debt for a sociology degree is completely untenable for the long term.
Instead they're just going to wipe the slate clean for a subset of students, then let the bubble rebuild for another decade or so and try to do it all again. In the meantime schools are just going to further bloat their curriculums with even more bullshite than we ever thought possible
That X could be tied to inflation, a set percentage, anything. But the spiraling costs have to be controlled. Letting students rack up dozens of thousands in debt for a sociology degree is completely untenable for the long term.
Instead they're just going to wipe the slate clean for a subset of students, then let the bubble rebuild for another decade or so and try to do it all again. In the meantime schools are just going to further bloat their curriculums with even more bullshite than we ever thought possible
This post was edited on 2/9/21 at 12:22 am
Posted on 2/9/21 at 12:24 am to Thundercles
I’d love to see them go after the cost of books and kickbacks for teachers requiring certain books.
Posted on 2/9/21 at 12:37 am to Browncd81
The best solution to student debt and college cost hyper inflation is to make the schools liable for their student’s debt. If the student gets a degree but fails to obtain an income great enough to afford payments towards their debt then the school is on the hook. Say goodbye to inflating costs and useless degrees.
Posted on 2/9/21 at 12:40 am to Thundercles
Tough subject for me. I can see it from multiple angles.
Exorbitant tuition, and tenured salaries, and university fat cats working lax hours are my biggest gripe.
I get that free in the US wouldn't be a feasible model on a grand scale. But, always got a kick out of Leftist Michael Moore films, and here is a good segment from 'Where to Invade Next?", free college education in Slovenia, even for Americans..
Slovenia Free Tuition
Exorbitant tuition, and tenured salaries, and university fat cats working lax hours are my biggest gripe.
I get that free in the US wouldn't be a feasible model on a grand scale. But, always got a kick out of Leftist Michael Moore films, and here is a good segment from 'Where to Invade Next?", free college education in Slovenia, even for Americans..
Slovenia Free Tuition
This post was edited on 2/9/21 at 12:43 am
Posted on 2/9/21 at 1:27 am to Browncd81
I think it’s very dumb, but I’d rather see our money sent to that than Pakistan Gender programs if that’s our choices.
Posted on 2/9/21 at 1:32 am to TheRoarRestoredInBR
quote:
I get that free in the US wouldn't be a feasible model on a grand scale. But, always got a kick out of Leftist Michael Moore films, and here is a good segment from 'Where to Invade Next?", free college education in Slovenia, even for Americans..
I don't know if they still have the program in place, but for many years Singapore had an interesting way of controlling population and maintaining a high percapita standard of living.
For the first two children, the government paid for everything. Health care, education...even college...was free, and government housing was either free or inexpensive.
Starting with the third child, the parent paid everything. 100% of health care. 100% of education, including college. No families larger than 4 were allowed to occupy government housing.
The effect was that the only people who had a third child were those parents who could afford to shoulder the entire financial burden themselves. You didn't have a third child if it meant you got kicked out of government housing.
I'm not saying that's a good policy or a bad one. I'm saying it worked for them. Singapore has one of the highest standards of living in the world, and in recent years they have had to relax those policies as their population started to decrease at a faster rate than they wanted.
Imagine if we had a system in this country where literally no one had a third child unless they could afford to bear all the financial burden.
Posted on 2/9/21 at 1:41 am to Browncd81
quote:Yabbut... where else would the professors go?
it's driven by these schools being bloated adult day care centers, t
Posted on 2/9/21 at 1:59 am to LSU2a
quote:
The best solution to student debt and college cost hyper inflation is to make the schools liable for their student’s debt. If the student gets a degree but fails to obtain an income great enough to afford payments towards their debt then the school is on the hook. Say goodbye to inflating costs and useless degrees.
While ok in theory, schools would just stop accepting students who need government loan assistance and only primarily admit students able to pay their own way or those on school/state funded scholarships. There's just no way schools would expose themselves to that type of financial risk, and that's also a pretty slippery slope with useless degrees. While many degrees offered do not promote high earning careers, at the end of the day, we still do need people with "worthless" degrees to teach in elementary and high schools classes and be willing to make next to nothing to do so...unless this also comes with teacher salaries sky-rocketing to create competition, which is also pretty unrealistic without a huge tax hike.
What they need to do instead of loan forgiveness is do a better job of actually lending to the right people. In no other lending operation is it so easy to get tens and thousands of dollars in loan money without any sort of risk analysis or thorough loan application process. Student loan forgiveness doesn’t do anything to address the root of the problem. I’d rather they use that money to invest in trade schools rather than sending kids to college who may or may not finish and will never pay off their loans.
This post was edited on 2/9/21 at 2:14 am
Posted on 2/9/21 at 2:30 am to lsufball19
quote:
While ok in theory, schools would just stop accepting students who need government loan assistance and only primarily admit students able to pay their own way or those on school/state funded scholarships.
You underestimate their greed
I like a more balanced approach, make the lenders eat half the loss and the school pay the other half. While I know it's 'socialism' doing this would hurt institutions that are a cancer to this country so I'm in favor of it.
Posted on 2/9/21 at 2:36 am to jackieMoon55
quote:
money sent to that than Pakistan Gender programs
you are aware that is a front to a politicians back pocket, right?
Posted on 2/9/21 at 5:35 am to Browncd81
The same goes for public education in general.
Posted on 2/9/21 at 6:18 am to Browncd81
As I have said multiple times, I still have tens of thousands of student loan debt I need to pay off, and yet am against them canceling student loan debt. Believe me...it'd be a good feeling waking up in the morning and realizing I don't have all of that debt left to pay off, but it'd also be unfair for my best friend who paid all of his debt off in a timely manner. It'd be unfair for countless more people who have also paid off their debt. Do they get a refund or does the government keep its money? I think we know the answer to that.
Also...just canceling student loan debt isn't going to solve the problem. All you'd be doing is sticking a band aid over a sucking chest wound. Until you pass laws that either eliminate or severely limit the government's ability to subsidize student loans, you're going to have this problem forever. College tuition has increased as much as it has because they know 100% they are going to get their money thanks to the feds subsidizing students with virtually no questions asked. This needs to stop.
Also...just canceling student loan debt isn't going to solve the problem. All you'd be doing is sticking a band aid over a sucking chest wound. Until you pass laws that either eliminate or severely limit the government's ability to subsidize student loans, you're going to have this problem forever. College tuition has increased as much as it has because they know 100% they are going to get their money thanks to the feds subsidizing students with virtually no questions asked. This needs to stop.
Posted on 2/9/21 at 6:23 am to BamaGradinTn
quote:
Imagine if we had a system in this country where literally no one had a third child unless they could afford to bear all the financial burden.
Unfortunately, people in America do not have the same will power and upbringing as many of our friends in the Far East.
Posted on 2/9/21 at 6:41 am to Browncd81
1. Seize endowments of any university dealing with the CCP. They can balance their books by reducing costs or increasing tuition. Either way, it will drive a wedge between the communist echo chamber that is Academic professorship and the people they claim to represent. The ugly reality will be shocking to the oblivious students on campus.
2. Create a tax fund credit of $10,000 tied to achievement.
- Associate Degree or Industrial certification (trade school)...you can claim the credit for 2 years
- Bachelor...4
- Masters...6
- Doctorate...8
For those that have paid back their loans, the above would be a stimulus plan.
2. Create a tax fund credit of $10,000 tied to achievement.
- Associate Degree or Industrial certification (trade school)...you can claim the credit for 2 years
- Bachelor...4
- Masters...6
- Doctorate...8
For those that have paid back their loans, the above would be a stimulus plan.
Posted on 2/9/21 at 7:01 am to Thundercles
quote:
federal government to declare "to be eligible for federal funds, your total cost of attendance can't increase more than X% each year"
Your solution is for the federal government to control the cost of college? How conservative of you........
Posted on 2/9/21 at 7:10 am to jfootball14
quote:
Your solution is for the federal government to control the cost of college? How conservative of you........
If these institutions want fed funding, it's a great idea.
Posted on 2/9/21 at 7:14 am to Browncd81
Let's not forget who set the price in the first place. I'd be all for wiping student debt, but it'd be through refusing to pay universities back. Or have them eat at least half.
Amazing how this is such a large political issue but there's no 'bad guy'. The universities and Gov (lender) aren't drug through the mud. And there's certainly no personal responsibility for the student who agreed to the loan terms.
Amazing how this is such a large political issue but there's no 'bad guy'. The universities and Gov (lender) aren't drug through the mud. And there's certainly no personal responsibility for the student who agreed to the loan terms.
Posted on 2/9/21 at 7:14 am to lsufball19
quote:
While ok in theory, schools would just stop accepting students who need government loan assistance and only primarily admit students able to pay their own way or those on school/state funded scholarships
They could also accept students who get loans through the private sector.
I believe government needs to be entirely out of the student loan game. This would make it harder for a lot of students to get accepted, but too fricking bad. Half of the students in college don't need to be there anyways.
I also believe we need to stop incentivizing colleges to accept foreign students over Americans. This is unbelievably stupid. If you don't have enough American students to fill your spots, then maybe you have too many spots available.
Also, we need to immediately stop accepting all students and professors from China. This might sound tinfoily, but I believe a good bit of these people are spies and we're paying them to be here.
Posted on 2/9/21 at 7:20 am to Browncd81
Cancelling student loan debt is indeed stupid.
The way people pay for school needs to be addressed. The govt should get out of the loan business.
That said, colleges and universities and their size/structure/opulence is a matter of supply and demand. Classes are full at many places, people can’t even get all the classes they want..students demand more and more technology/facilities/etc..they swarm to the places with the extras they like best. This is of course all a function of the govt backed/handled/manipulated money flowing as freely as it is to purchase this product. That’s what needs to be fixed to control both the cost of education and the debt that comes from it.
The way people pay for school needs to be addressed. The govt should get out of the loan business.
That said, colleges and universities and their size/structure/opulence is a matter of supply and demand. Classes are full at many places, people can’t even get all the classes they want..students demand more and more technology/facilities/etc..they swarm to the places with the extras they like best. This is of course all a function of the govt backed/handled/manipulated money flowing as freely as it is to purchase this product. That’s what needs to be fixed to control both the cost of education and the debt that comes from it.
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