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rds dc
Colorado Fan
Member since Jun 2008
13680 posts

The Constitution does not Give Trump Authority to Impose Tariffs
Articles I & II of the Constitution give Congress sole authority to regulate foreign commerce and impose tariffs. Trump does not have this authority under the Constitution.

However, likes so many other things, the Do Nothing Congress has delegated these powers to the President in certain situations. There is a laundry list of statues that delegate these powers to the President but typically in a narrowly defined manor with time restrictions. Some of the broadest powers are granted to the President during times of war or when there are clear threats to national security. I've seen a couple of articles indicating that the White House is considering the national security hook but it will be interesting to see what authorities the WH references, if they proceed unilaterally. Also, Trump will be sued over this with the likely challenge coming against the constitutionality of the delegation or the application of the delegation.

My knee jerk reaction is that the tariffs Trump described seem bad but I don't know anything about either industry or how the international markets work. What I do know, it will be glorious watching so many people clamor for a return to respecting the Constitution


Rex
LSU Fan
Here, there, and nowhere
Member since Sep 2004
66001 posts

re: The Constitution does not Give Trump Authority to Impose Tariffs
You are correct.


gthog61
Georgia Tech Fan
Irving, TX
Member since Nov 2009
37897 posts

re: The Constitution does not Give Trump Authority to Impose Tariffs
Like you give a shite about the constitution


IllegalPete
USA Fan
Front Range
Member since Oct 2017
4863 posts

re: The Constitution does not Give Trump Authority to Impose Tariffs
Lol.

You people are melting bigly over these proposed tariffs

Muh ARs for teenagers.

Muh trade wars.




Turn your coats on if you are going to act like the snowflakes.


scrooster
South Carolina Fan
Resident Ethicist
Member since Jul 2012
28266 posts

re: The Constitution does not Give Trump Authority to Impose Tariffs
China is using trade to build their military to go to war against us ... so technically this falls under national security.

At least that's the way I see it.

Not only that but we need our steel industry up and running at full capacity and fully modernized if we are going to fight a major war in the next ten to twenty years .... and we are.
This post was edited on 3/1 at 5:58 pm


Sid in Lakeshore
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2008
36249 posts

re: The Constitution does not Give Trump Authority to Impose Tariffs
Meh..... Steel and Aluminum......

Canada and Mexico....

NAFTA renegotiation ploy.

Short term tariffs to bolster our position elsewhere. Enjoy the lib tears and vapors.


rds dc
Colorado Fan
Member since Jun 2008
13680 posts

re: The Constitution does not Give Trump Authority to Impose Tariffs
quote:

Lol.

You people are melting bigly over these proposed tariffs

Muh ARs for teenagers.

Muh trade wars.




Turn your coats on if you are going to act like the snowflakes.


What are you talking about? Do you even know what melting is? Please highlight the "melty" parts of the post. Thanks in advance.


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SDVTiger
Hawaii Fan
Volcom Pipeline House
Member since Nov 2011
27215 posts

re: The Constitution does not Give Trump Authority to Impose Tariffs
quote:

Short term tariffs to bolster our position elsewhere. Enjoy the lib tears and vapors.



This. its awesome to watch this melt


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rds dc
Colorado Fan
Member since Jun 2008
13680 posts

re: The Constitution does not Give Trump Authority to Impose Tariffs
quote:

China is using trade to build their military to go to war against us ... so technically this falls under national security.

At least that's the way I see it.

Not only thay but we need our steel industry up and running and modernized if we are going to fight a major war in the next ten to twenty years .... and we are.



Both "national security" and "times of war" seem to very broadly defined in these delegations. Just having troops deployed in "war zones" or what you described above may be enough to enact the authorities under certain delegations.


WeeWee
USA Fan
Member since Aug 2012
27002 posts

re: The Constitution does not Give Trump Authority to Impose Tariffs
quote:

Articles I & II of the Constitution give Congress sole authority to regulate foreign commerce and impose tariffs. Trump does not have this authority under the Constitution.

However, likes so many other things, the Do Nothing Congress has delegated these powers to the President in certain situations. There is a laundry list of statues that delegate these powers to the President but typically in a narrowly defined manor with time restrictions. Some of the broadest powers are granted to the President during times of war or when there are clear threats to national security. I've seen a couple of articles indicating that the White House is considering the national security hook but it will be interesting to see what authorities the WH references, if they proceed unilaterally. Also, Trump will be sued over this with the likely challenge coming against the constitutionality of the delegation or the application of the delegation.


You know if you just used google and/or wikipedia you would see that the SCOTUS has already ruled on the issue and said that Congress can delegate to the Executive branch and you would see that the Congress has already delegated that power to the Executive.

quote:

J. W. Hampton, Jr. & Co. v. United States, 276 U.S. 394 (1928),[1] is a landmark[2][3] case in the United States in which the Supreme Court of the United States ruled that congressional delegation of legislative authority is an implied power of Congress that is constitutional so long as Congress provides an "intelligible principle" to guide the executive branch.
LINK

quote:

Trade Expansion Act of 1962 §232(b)–(c):
24 If the Secretary of Commerce
“finds that an article is being imported into the United States in such quantities or
under such circumstances as to threaten to impair the national security,” then the
President is authorized to take “such other actions as the President deems
necessary to adjust the imports of such article so that such imports will not
threaten to impair the national security” (subject to certain procedural
requirements).
LINK

quote:

Thursday’s meeting between the president and the manufacturing executives comes two weeks after the Commerce Department released the results of a study launched last April looking at whether steel and aluminum imports pose a threat to American defense, by reducing U.S. capacity to make key materials for military equipment, and whether that threat could justify new import curbs under a little-used 1962 trade law

The study, conducted in consultation with other agencies, concluded that those imports undermine American military needs and laid out three options for Mr. Trump to consider for each industry: global tariffs, global quotas or a more targeted approach focused on a handful of exports seen as most responsible for hampering U.S. industry.
WSJ

So Congress has the right to delegate the power to him and Congress has already delegated the power to him and the DOC's study did support the tariff's as an issue of national security.

quote:

My knee jerk reaction is that the tariffs Trump described seem bad but I don't know anything about either industry or how the international markets work.


Knee jerk reactions are only useful for one thing and that is making you look like a dumbass.

quote:

What I do know, it will be glorious watching so many people clamor for a return to respecting the Constitution


If you liberals respected the Constitution then you also have to respect the 10th Amendment and it would mean that you would have to disown 98.23% of Obama's policies. So you are basically cheering for yourself to get egg all over you face.




buckeye_vol
Ohio State Fan
Member since Jul 2014
30190 posts

re: The Constitution does not Give Trump Authority to Impose Tariffs
quote:

You people are melting bigly over these proposed tariffs
Well for all of the irrelevant stuff we all get caught up in with politics, this is actually something that could have a national and global implications, and try could be potentially very negative ones at that.


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WeeWee
USA Fan
Member since Aug 2012
27002 posts

re: The Constitution does not Give Trump Authority to Impose Tariffs
quote:

Both "national security" and "times of war" seem to very broadly defined in these delegations.


Which is why it requires an report from the DOC explaining the reasoning for the tariff. Here is the 262 page report that explains the reasons and gets rid of the ambiguity.


rds dc
Colorado Fan
Member since Jun 2008
13680 posts

re: The Constitution does not Give Trump Authority to Impose Tariffs
quote:


You know if you just used google and/or wikipedia you would see that the SCOTUS has already ruled on the issue and said that Congress can delegate to the Executive branch and you would see that the Congress has already delegated that power to the Executive.


Did you even read my post before racing off to Google?

2nd paragraph of the OP:

quote:

However, likes so many other things, the Do Nothing Congress has delegated these powers to the President in certain situations. There is a laundry list of statues that delegate these powers to the President but typically in a narrowly defined manor with time restrictions. Some of the broadest powers are granted to the President during times of war or when there are clear threats to national security.


Congress did that, not the Constitution.

quote:

Trade Expansion Act of 1962 §232(b)–(c):
24 If the Secretary of Commerce
“finds that an article is being imported into the United States in such quantities or
under such circumstances as to threaten to impair the national security,” then the
President is authorized to take “such other actions as the President deems
necessary to adjust the imports of such article so that such imports will not
threaten to impair the national security” (subject to certain procedural
requirements).


Also from the OP:

quote:

Also, Trump will be sued over this with the likely challenge coming against the constitutionality of the delegation or the application of the delegation.


If Trump cites the Trade Expansion Act, he will be sued. I'm not making an argument as to the validity of such an action but it is basically guaranteed in this era of judicial activism.

quote:

If you liberals respected the Constitution then you also have to respect the 10th Amendment and it would mean that you would have to disown 98.23% of Obama's policies. So you are basically cheering for yourself to get egg all over you face.


Once again, did you read the OP? I said that I didn't know enough about the international steel and aluminum markets to really have an opinion but as a libertarian my knee jerk reaction was to not be in favor of additional tariffs. However, I will read any supporting materials that the Trump admin puts out there and will take an informed position, even if that means not supporting a Trump position.

Also, please find one post where I ever supported any Obama policies? Outside of his total disinterest in space policy, he was a failure across the board.
This post was edited on 3/1 at 7:41 pm


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rds dc
Colorado Fan
Member since Jun 2008
13680 posts

re: The Constitution does not Give Trump Authority to Impose Tariffs
quote:

quote:
Both "national security" and "times of war" seem to very broadly defined in these delegations.


Which is why it requires an report from the DOC explaining the reasoning for the tariff. Here is the 262 page report that explains the reasons and gets rid of the ambiguity.


Thanks for the link, I have not seen that report before.


Alltheway Tigers!
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2004
4974 posts

re: The Constitution does not Give Trump Authority to Impose Tariffs


Cool. It is judged unconstitutional.

Trumps get points for trying. Demos get a mark for blocking the American worker. Congress continues a record of doing very little in the way of trade.

But it does send a signal to the world that maybe Congress might get on board one day. Maybe a chance for the world to make the trade with the old US of A a bit more fair for everyone.

I think Trump wins points on this.


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bamarep
Alabama Fan
Monkey Town
Member since Nov 2013
37552 posts

re: The Constitution does not Give Trump Authority to Impose Tariffs
I support if for no other reason than to limit Chinese steel in this country.


It sucks. The shite will rust away with just the threat of rain.


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RobbBobb
Matt Flynn, BCS MVP
Member since Feb 2007
18001 posts

re: The Constitution does not Give Trump Authority to Impose Tariffs
quote:

The Constitution does not Give Trump Authority to Impose Tariffs

But Congress sure as hell did. Maybe they should have thought about that before enacting NAFTA
quote:

Safeguards

NAFTA provides timely, effective relief to American workers and firms needing time to adjust to injurious imports from Mexico.

Two Important Safeguards

A bilateral safeguard permits "snap-back" to pre-NAFTA tariff rates for up to 3 years — or 4 years for extremely sensitive products — if increases in imports of Mexican goods cause or threaten to cause serious injury to American firms or workers. "Snap-back" means resetting a tariff at its original level. A global safeguard retains our right to impose quotas or tariffs on Mexico and/or Canada as part of a multilateral safeguard action.


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WeeWee
USA Fan
Member since Aug 2012
27002 posts

re: The Constitution does not Give Trump Authority to Impose Tariffs
quote:

quote:
Both "national security" and "times of war" seem to very broadly defined in these delegations.


Which is why it requires an report from the DOC explaining the reasoning for the tariff. Here is the 262 page report that explains the reasons and gets rid of the ambiguity.


Thanks for the link, I have not seen that report before.


You're welcome for the link. If Trump cites the 1962 law and uses that report as basis for his national security claim than whomever attempts to sue him will lose bigly in court. They might win the initial case in the 9th circuit court, but eventually the SCOTUS will back the POTUS.


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Ebbandflow
LSU Fan
Member since Aug 2010
10325 posts

re: The Constitution does not Give Trump Authority to Impose Tariffs
quote:

Like you give a shite about the constitution


So you dont either? Now how can you judge?


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boosiebadazz
Member since Feb 2008
64169 posts

re: The Constitution does not Give Trump Authority to Impose Tariffs
Nice post. Solid links and I learned something

I was curious of that background when Trump spoke of national security in his remarks today, but you gave a good background and context of why.

I also agree with the theoretical basis of Congress delegating to the executive.


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