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Should Trump continue making Drug interdiction a major point in wall issue??
Posted on 1/22/19 at 10:24 am
Posted on 1/22/19 at 10:24 am
I am all for a wall - and I detest drugs of all kinds - even marijuana.
BUT - I have given a lot of thought to the "walls will stop drugs' argument.
It is my understanding that drugs - cocaine is what is in my mind - is being confiscated by the ton at ports of entry. I don't recall many high-tonnage intercepts along the desert border area.
At first I thought "well, just because drugs are being seized a much higher area in ports of entry, doesn't mean that even more is not pouring across the unmanned border areas."
But that thought doesn't hold water - you would have to imagine TONS of material being transported to and across the border without detection. Then it would have to be accumulated at transportation centers for distribution - seems like a hard thing to conceal out on a desert cattle ranch.
SO - please enlighten me - is it REAL that overwhelming majority of drugs are being transferred thru ports of entry or not?
If so - then I think it is counter-productive to highlight that as a major benefit of building a border wall.
If the claim that more drugs are pouring across the undefended border areas, then please present a rational scenario about how that could effectively happen on a large scale over decades??
To be absolutely POSTIVE - I want a border wall - but almost exclusively for the demographic instabilities that it results in - drug intervention is also good, but not a deciding factor.
eta:
dang - just tuned in to FNC and they are doing a story on drug cartels - missed the entire episode - been watching CNN for a change of pace this morning
BUT - I have given a lot of thought to the "walls will stop drugs' argument.
It is my understanding that drugs - cocaine is what is in my mind - is being confiscated by the ton at ports of entry. I don't recall many high-tonnage intercepts along the desert border area.
At first I thought "well, just because drugs are being seized a much higher area in ports of entry, doesn't mean that even more is not pouring across the unmanned border areas."
But that thought doesn't hold water - you would have to imagine TONS of material being transported to and across the border without detection. Then it would have to be accumulated at transportation centers for distribution - seems like a hard thing to conceal out on a desert cattle ranch.
SO - please enlighten me - is it REAL that overwhelming majority of drugs are being transferred thru ports of entry or not?
If so - then I think it is counter-productive to highlight that as a major benefit of building a border wall.
If the claim that more drugs are pouring across the undefended border areas, then please present a rational scenario about how that could effectively happen on a large scale over decades??
To be absolutely POSTIVE - I want a border wall - but almost exclusively for the demographic instabilities that it results in - drug intervention is also good, but not a deciding factor.
eta:
dang - just tuned in to FNC and they are doing a story on drug cartels - missed the entire episode - been watching CNN for a change of pace this morning
This post was edited on 1/22/19 at 10:28 am
Posted on 1/22/19 at 10:27 am to ChineseBandit58
He is just throwing a bone to keep his RINO VP on board.
Posted on 1/22/19 at 10:28 am to ChineseBandit58
As long as palms can be greased they will find a way here.
I'd suspect there is very little drugs coming over the border in the desert.
I'd suspect there is very little drugs coming over the border in the desert.
Posted on 1/22/19 at 10:31 am to wareaglepete
quote:
He is just throwing a bone to keep his RINO VP on board
Smarmy presentation but /\ this charge /\ is why I am not in favor of emphasizing the drug threat - I am all for robust drug intervention and punishment - but not as a significant factor in the Wall discussion.
I care ONLY for rational arguments - I ABHOR arguments based on trivial considerations designed to influence marginal intelligences
Posted on 1/22/19 at 10:32 am to redneck hippie
quote:
As long as palms can be greased they will find a way here.
I'd suspect there is very little drugs coming over the border in the desert.
precisely my point - so why is he doing it?? IT will eventually work against him
Posted on 1/22/19 at 10:34 am to ChineseBandit58
the Dems have a decent argument here, there are drugs coming through the border, but it is not most of them
does not diminish the need for a wall one bit, but Trump is probably over hyping this point
does not diminish the need for a wall one bit, but Trump is probably over hyping this point
Posted on 1/22/19 at 10:41 am to ChineseBandit58
The actual issue across the border is human trafficking, but it doesn’t grab headlines like drugs does. Remember, this country has a 50+ year history of a “War on Drugs”. Not so much on human trafficking.
Posted on 1/22/19 at 10:41 am to dcbl
Wasn't there a major cocaine bust a day or so ago? Over an undefended area?
How do we know how much walks in here?
How do we know how much walks in here?
This post was edited on 1/22/19 at 10:43 am
Posted on 1/22/19 at 10:42 am to dcbl
quote:
does not diminish the need for a wall one bit, but Trump is probably over hyping this point
And the one thing i detest more than anything else is HYPE for the purpose of infalueninc POLITICAL issues
I seriously fear that this is going to eventually hurt the basis for the wall.
I think we are totally dependent on appealing to whatever common sense still exists in the American population - Hints of 'overhype' can deflect otherwise truth-seeking potential allies.
For instance - if you are trying to convince ME of something I have not given a lot of thought to in advance - you better not be emphasizing some easily proven-to-be illogic point. I'll quit listening in a heartbeat.
This post was edited on 1/22/19 at 10:43 am
Posted on 1/22/19 at 10:47 am to Tbonepatron
quote:
The actual issue across the border is human trafficking
Now THIS is a major issue that to me is FAR more persuasive than "stopping drugs'
Because even IF trafficking is not a significant border-vs-entry port unbalance, the actual argument of "if it saves one life" would be a completely valid argument.
I am not so motivated to try and prevent a 5 lb package of cocaine coming across the border when TONs of it are coming thru points of entry.
I WOULD be sympathetic to saving ONE innocent girl from a life of forced prostitution even thought there are MILLIONs of other prostitutes.
Posted on 1/22/19 at 10:47 am to antibarner
quote:
How do we know how much walks in here?
I don't - this is the question of my OP
How significant is it? and by what means could it happen:???
This post was edited on 1/22/19 at 10:49 am
Posted on 1/22/19 at 10:49 am to ChineseBandit58
Drugs are not smuggled by foot across dry remote Texas ranch land by individual campesinos. Wall would have no effect on smuggling.
Posted on 1/22/19 at 10:50 am to ChineseBandit58
How many drug busts happen on the southern border?
Last stats I saw showed about 4,000 to 5,000 lbs of cocaine busts happen at the mexico border each year.
Now multiply that by at least 1000 and that is probably how much is coming in.
Sounds like a big deal to me.
Last stats I saw showed about 4,000 to 5,000 lbs of cocaine busts happen at the mexico border each year.
Now multiply that by at least 1000 and that is probably how much is coming in.
Sounds like a big deal to me.
Posted on 1/22/19 at 10:53 am to ChineseBandit58
quote:
It is my understanding that drugs - cocaine is what is in my mind - is being confiscated by the ton at ports of entry. I don't recall many high-tonnage intercepts along the desert border area.
We just don't hear about it much. This happened last week.
quote:
"Mexican cartel operatives tried to smuggle more than 700 pounds of cocaine through the waters of the Rio Grande..."
Posted on 1/22/19 at 10:54 am to TBoy
quote:
Wall would have no effect on smuggling.
This is my premise - I am begging for someone to show me how it could be done in a significant manner.
This has absolutely NOTHING to do with my support for the wall
AND - I am willing to bet everything I own that it is not a concern in your OPPOSITION to the wall
YOU don't want the wall because unbridled illegal alien intrusions benefit your POLITICAL objectives - Even if walls DID stop all illegal drugs you would be just a adamantly OPPOSED to it.
And your knee-jerk response is the primary reason I wish Trump would stop HIGHLIGHTING the influence on drug trafficking by the wall.
Makes an easy target so that opponents do not have to address the REAL need for the wall.
Posted on 1/22/19 at 10:55 am to ChineseBandit58
quote:
Should Trump continue making Drug interdiction a major point in wall issue??
No. He needs to emphasize a broader scope. Economic burden in particular.
Difficult to crystallize that for most voters, though.
This post was edited on 1/22/19 at 10:57 am
Posted on 1/22/19 at 10:57 am to notsince98
quote:
How many drug busts happen on the southern border?
Last stats I saw showed about 4,000 to 5,000 lbs of cocaine busts happen at the mexico border each year.
Now multiply that by at least 1000 and that is probably how much is coming in.
Sounds like a big deal to me
This is the kind of data I'm looking for - This is a huge amount - but still seems less significant than the TONS of cocaine coming thru the ports of entry. And you have to ask = "if they are seizing TONs - then how much MORE is coming thru undetected"
Posted on 1/22/19 at 11:00 am to TbirdSpur2010
quote:
He needs to emphasize a broader scope. Economic burden in particular.
Difficult to crystallize that for most voters, though.
my thought exactly - I have never emphasized the 'drug problem' in my support of the wall and I think trump is making a strategic mistake in doing so,
This thread was to see if I was wrong about that - so far, I see no real substantiation of the SIGNIFICANCE of 'drugs via the desert" vs 'drug via the ports of entry."
Thanks for weighing in
Posted on 1/22/19 at 11:02 am to ChineseBandit58
quote:
This is the kind of data I'm looking for - This is a huge amount - but still seems less significant than the TONS of cocaine coming thru the ports of entry. And you have to ask = "if they are seizing TONs - then how much MORE is coming thru undetected"
There are plenty of articles out there discussing how it is being trafficked by foot and vehicle over the southern border. There are stretches where there is no border patrol presence for hundreds of miles. Doing truck distribution is easy to hide as there is nobody there to see.
They are using illegal immigrants to setup distractions and tie up resources. The border patrol has to go tend to the illegals needing food, water and medical attention while they bring horse and truckloads of drugs over a few miles away.
The illegal activity on the border is so vast you can't really just say only one facet is important. The drugs, human and sex trafficking is all tied together and all would be reduced to almost zero with a functioning wall.
Posted on 1/22/19 at 11:08 am to ChineseBandit58
quote:
This thread was to see if I was wrong about that - so far, I see no real substantiation of the SIGNIFICANCE of 'drugs via the desert" vs 'drug via the ports of entry."
Thanks for weighing in
My pleasure. I've been thinking about this angle as well. In a way, I think the Trump's wall mantra and drug rationale are manifestations of the need oversimplify the issue in order to sell it on a broader scale. "We need to overhaul our immigration policy to better disincentivize illegal immigration" is less sexy of a hook than "BUILD THE WALL!" "WE HAVE TO STOO THE DRUGS!" resonates with more folks than "making it harder to border hop and stiffer penalties for criminal activity among illegals is necessary."
I'm not a huge "build the wall" type guy, honestly. I support it as a measure--a part of a broader, comprehensive approach to the problem. Too many folks on both sides have made it about the wall itself, like it's some panacea. It's annoying, yet we wouldn't be talking about solutions at all if it weren't for the consistent "wall/drugs" talk from Trump.
Blessing and a curse. We'll see how it all plays out I guess.
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