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Posted on 1/7/14 at 11:07 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
They are a symbol of legal heritage
Posted on 1/7/14 at 11:17 am to Draconian Sanctions
Legal heritage? Lol.
First, how many of the ten commandments are actually laws? Theft? Murder? Perjury? I think that's it. It's not illegal to dishonor your father, nor is it illegal to be covetous, nor is it illegal to be an idolator, etc.
And, second, the idea that modern laws are "inspired" or "derived" from the ten commandments is weak and condescending. As if we couldn't figure out "hey let's not kill each other and take each other's shite" without a god telling us not to. Plenty of ancient societies wholly separate from Judaism were able to independently develop a rule of law, so that idea of "legal heritage" is pure bullshite.
Now, as someone pointed out earlier, if you wanted to display it next to Hammurabi's Code, the Magna Carta, etc., as more of a historical or anthropological piece, then that's fine I guess. I suppose I really don't care what you do with the ten commandments; I just think the idea that our laws derive from them is false.
First, how many of the ten commandments are actually laws? Theft? Murder? Perjury? I think that's it. It's not illegal to dishonor your father, nor is it illegal to be covetous, nor is it illegal to be an idolator, etc.
And, second, the idea that modern laws are "inspired" or "derived" from the ten commandments is weak and condescending. As if we couldn't figure out "hey let's not kill each other and take each other's shite" without a god telling us not to. Plenty of ancient societies wholly separate from Judaism were able to independently develop a rule of law, so that idea of "legal heritage" is pure bullshite.
Now, as someone pointed out earlier, if you wanted to display it next to Hammurabi's Code, the Magna Carta, etc., as more of a historical or anthropological piece, then that's fine I guess. I suppose I really don't care what you do with the ten commandments; I just think the idea that our laws derive from them is false.
This post was edited on 1/7/14 at 11:18 am
Posted on 1/7/14 at 11:20 am to Vegas Bengal
quote:Not on point. Yours would be a valid argument if the depictions were of the exodus, or of a burning bush. They aren't. They are depictions of an early code of law and its lawgiver, as are those of Menes, Hammurabi, Lycurgus, Solon, Draco, Confucius, and Octavian.
ETA: if you can't see the difference in those then I don't know what to tell you. There is no historical evidence that Moses led the Israelites from slavery in Egypt through the parted Red Sea and God gave him a set of tablets by way of a burning bush on a mountain.
Posted on 1/7/14 at 11:23 am to WikiTiger
quote:
If Christians can have their message on public grounds then so should every other belief if they want.
This viewpoint is ridiculous and dangerous. To say that every belief is equal, especially satanism, is absurd.
Posted on 1/7/14 at 11:25 am to CJM18
quote:But that is beside the point. The representation is not one of belief, it is one of law.
To say that every belief is equal
Posted on 1/7/14 at 11:29 am to DCRebel
quote:
And, second, the idea that modern laws are "inspired" or "derived" from the ten commandments is weak and condescending. As if we couldn't figure out "hey let's not kill each other and take each other's shite" without a god telling us not to.
well...that's what it took
and this is coming from a non-believer. that's what religion is, basically...we DO need something telling us not to do certain behaviors that disrupt society. after trial and error as code these as religious morality in order for it to take root in society.
Posted on 1/7/14 at 11:33 am to NC_Tigah
Wow, I haven't read this whole thread, so forgive me if I am misunderstanding what you are saying here... But are you suggesting that the Ten Commandments are a representation of our legal system? Holy shite please don't tell me that. Thank God(yes sarcasm intended) that we do not follow the 10 Commandments as law or for any basis for our legal system in any way.
Posted on 1/7/14 at 11:34 am to sabes que
quote:Perhaps you'd do better reading a bit more, and then coming back.
I haven't read this whole thread, so forgive me if I am misunderstanding what you are saying here... But are you suggesting that the Ten Commandments are a representation of our legal system?
Posted on 1/7/14 at 11:42 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
we DO need something telling us not to do certain behaviors that disrupt society.
So without belief in a intervening deity you think people would just descend into total chaos and lose all morality? Check out Switzerland and some other countries in that region of the world. Belief in a personal god is super low, (at least compared to the US) and they are doing just fine. No mass loss of morality, well perhaps, if you consider morality as discriminating against homosexuals and the like, then yes, they are less moral than we are. But if you consider, not killing each other, not stealing, not discriminating against people based on gender, sexuality, or race, donating money to charity, then they are doing just fine.
Posted on 1/7/14 at 11:46 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Not on point. Yours would be a valid argument if the depictions were of the exodus, or of a burning bush. They aren't. They are depictions of an early code of law and its lawgiver, as are those of Menes, Hammurabi, Lycurgus, Solon, Draco, Confucius, and Octavian.
Using that rationale, then Jesus should also be in the Supreme Court as should Mohammed.
This post was edited on 1/7/14 at 11:47 am
Posted on 1/7/14 at 11:47 am to sabes que
quote:In fact, they enjoy the same historic basis of law, much of which is interwoven in various faiths. You should travel there at some point. Beautiful country. Lots of churches.
Check out Switzerland and some other countries in that region of the world. Belief in a personal god is super low, (at least compared to the US) and they are doing just fine.
Posted on 1/7/14 at 11:49 am to Vegas Bengal
quote:No. Moses was their legal precursor.
Using that rationale, then Jesus should also be in the Supreme Court as should Mohammed.
Posted on 1/7/14 at 11:52 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
well...that's what it took
and this is coming from a non-believer. that's what religion is, basically...we DO need something telling us not to do certain behaviors that disrupt society. after trial and error as code these as religious morality in order for it to take root in society.
So Lycurgus and Confucius used religion?
Posted on 1/7/14 at 11:53 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Using that rationale, then Jesus should also be in the Supreme Court as should Mohammed.
No. Moses was their legal precursor.
Which is more of a reason why the 10 commandments have no business in a gov't building. It's religious based.
Posted on 1/7/14 at 11:54 am to sabes que
quote:
So without belief in a intervening deity you think people would just descend into total chaos and lose all morality?
many people would, yes. and we would have never developed as a species without religion doing just that for thousands of years
Posted on 1/7/14 at 11:55 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Not on point. Yours would be a valid argument if the depictions were of the exodus, or of a burning bush. They aren't.
And by the way, the burning bush is what made the 10 commandments. Moses did not. So the depiction of the stone tablets is a depiction of what God supposedly made and gave to Moses. If that's not religion, I really don't know what to tell you.
Posted on 1/7/14 at 11:56 am to CJM18
quote:
This viewpoint is ridiculous and dangerous. To say that every belief is equal, especially satanism, is absurd.
I do not disagree with your statement, per say, however, the same, old problem always arises... Who are you to say which "belief" is superior. What if you say it is Christianity and I say that it is Buddhism, and your neighbor says its Islam, and your other neighbor says it is Christianity but of another denomination than you? Who is to say? Therefore, the complete separation of church and state is the way to go. "Mr Jefferson, Build up that wall."
Posted on 1/7/14 at 11:56 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
many people would, yes. and we would have never developed as a species without religion doing just that for thousands of years
I believe you have cause and effect skewed there.
Posted on 1/7/14 at 11:58 am to Vegas Bengal
quote:In God We Trust, brother. We're one nation under God. What's the religion?
So the depiction of the stone tablets is a depiction of what God supposedly made and gave to Moses. If that's not religion
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