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Started By
Message
re: Satanists seek spot next to Ten Commandments monument on steps of OK's Statehous
Posted on 1/9/14 at 10:25 am to Vegas Bengal
Posted on 1/9/14 at 10:25 am to Vegas Bengal
quote:It isn't.
Why is it important to have the tablets of the ten commandments in a public place?
In fact, I think the Ok Ten Commandment thing is a fairly tacky monument. I'd be for removing it, regardless of content.
Was there proposal in the OP for removal?
My argument here is that there is no correlation, no equivalence whatsoever between the TCs and a Satan Statue in this instance.
3
Posted on 1/9/14 at 10:28 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
My argument here is that there is no correlation, no equivalence whatsoever between the TCs and a Satan Statue in this instance.
They are both religious statues in the context of Oklahoma. Why only Christian imagery?
or somehow does some otherwise obscure theocratic document (10 commandments) become "legal history" but the declaration of the rights of man, magna carta, common law, law of the 12 tables etc are just ignored?
Posted on 1/9/14 at 10:35 am to MagicCityBlazer
quote:Not Jewish?
Why only Christian imagery?
Not Muslim?
Not historic?
Not law?
Just "Christian imagery"?
=====
I believe that speaks thoroughly to the nature of your perspective.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 10:39 am to NC_Tigah
Frankly I don't give a frick. I think the Christian Right's obsession with putting the TC and crosses in the public is equal to the ACLU and others trying to stop it.
I like the satanist statue here because it shows how ridiculous this who thing is.
I like the satanist statue here because it shows how ridiculous this who thing is.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 10:43 am to Vegas Bengal
quote:However, like it or not, you understand the legal nature of the beast (pun intended
I like the satanist statue here
)
Posted on 1/9/14 at 10:43 am to TideCPA
quote:
No one would be forced to convert to Satanism if their statue was erected.
Correct. So you're original point that it violates US law is false.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 10:47 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Not historic?
Not law?
I have contested both of these contentiously.
To say that it is either is to pretend that the religious aspect doesn't exist. Historic how? We don't even know if it really happened or what mountain it supposedly occurred at.
quote:
Not Jewish?
Not Muslim?
Considering that I've been told contentiously that it "isn't religious!!11!1!" from lots of people I would say that those in this thread convinced me it isn't jewish or Muslim.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 10:47 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Not Jewish?
Not Muslim?
Not historic?
Not law?
Just "Christian imagery"?
LINK
Pretty much. It's no secret that Christians are the only driving force behind erecting these monuments on government property, with even state chief justices saying things like "God has chosen this time and this place so we can save our country and save our courts for our children."
If you've got examples of Muslims or Jews clamoring to have the TC put on display on public property, by all means post them.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 10:54 am to CJM18
quote:
Correct. So you're original point that it violates US law is false.
Huh? You originally contended that we can't have a Satanic statue because certain tenets of Satanism are illegal/immoral. I then argued that enforcing the TC in their entirety would be equally illegal/immoral. So clearly that is not a viable reason to keep them from being displayed.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 10:55 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
NC_Tigah
It is quite obvious to me from your post, that you are quite intelligent and a very good debater. However, you also seem to be deluding yourself. Do you really think that people want the 10 Commandments up in government buildings because they have historical value in law giving? or any reason other than pushing their Christian ideals and agenda on everyone else? Come on man. Be realistic here. People want the 10 commandments up because they believe it represents their faith and they want that faith represented and yes, thrown in the face of everyone else. If you can't see that, with your intelligence level, it is because you aren't trying.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 10:56 am to TideCPA
quote:Not relevant.quote:Pretty much. It's no secret that Christians are the only driving force behind erecting these
Just "Christian imagery"?
Relevance is in the imagery, not the intent.
Nature of such imagery has been addressed in our courts many times. Legality has been established.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 11:02 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Relevance is in the imagery, not the intent.
Wow.
Just wow.
Could not disagree more on this situation with 'public' lands.
As said previously, we aren't talking about a statue to sir Thomas Moore, but the symbol of a theocracy.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 11:05 am to sabes que
quote:Think we should chisel them off the SCOTUS?
Do you really think that people want the 10 Commandments up in government buildings because they have historical value in law giving?
Posted on 1/9/14 at 11:05 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Not relevant. Relevance is in the imagery, not the intent. Nature of such imagery has been addressed in our courts many times. Legality has been established.
Please explain why a federal district court and court of appeals forced the removal of the TC from the Alabama judicial building.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 11:09 am to sabes que
quote:
because they believe it represents their faith and they want that faith represented and yes, thrown in the face of everyone else.
Same thing satanists, atheists, secular progressives, and everyone else wants.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 11:12 am to CJM18
quote:
Same thing satanists, atheists, secular progressives, and everyone else wants.
Exactly.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 11:20 am to TideCPA
quote:It wasn't just the 10 Commandments. That's why.
Please explain why a federal district court and court of appeals forced the removal of the TC from the Alabama judicial building.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 11:28 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
It wasn't just the 10 Commandments. That's why.
The other inscriptions were not religious in nature and were mentioned nowhere in the district court decision. The sole focus was on the TC and their tacit endorsement of one particular deity.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 11:28 am to CJM18
quote:
Same thing satanists, atheists, secular progressives, and everyone else wants.
If I believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, why can't I lobby for a FSM statue to be erected at the court house?
Posted on 1/9/14 at 11:32 am to TideCPA
quote:
quote: Same thing satanists, atheists, secular progressives, and everyone else wants.
quote:
Exactly
So where do you draw the line? If a group comes along and says their belief is murdering religious people do you give them a statue? If not, why? Because murder is immoral? Says who? There is no God so we create morals for ourselves. So why are your morals superior to theirs? This is the logical outworking of atheism and it is completely incoherent.
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