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Message
re: Satanists seek spot next to Ten Commandments monument on steps of OK's Statehous
Posted on 1/9/14 at 2:41 am to Vegas Bengal
Posted on 1/9/14 at 2:41 am to Vegas Bengal
I echo the sentiments of that earlier poster Vegas, who is your God? You seem to mock the God of the bible and tell me how wrong I am for following him, but you never say where your beliefs come from or who your God is? If he isn't the God of the bible, where did he come from? What is your doctrine?
Why do you and others like you think that one can be Christlan and not have a doctrine to follow? I know you've said you follow the words of Jesus, but I've showed you multiple bible verses from Jesus that I know you don't believe? Do you believe in a literal hell? Jesus did? Do you believe in demons? Jesus did? Do you believe in Adam and Eve? Jesus did? Jonah, Noah, Jesus did.
Almost every earthly discipline has rules or guidelines, but with your type of Christianity, one is to believe that you are free to simply follow your conscience and those words of Jesus that you agree with!
Would you walk into court and tell the judge," look your honor, I know the law says this and case law dictates such, but I don't feel like following it because it offends my sensibilities?"
Would a brain surgeon say," I know there is certain procedures that the medical books illustrate I must follow to perform a safe and effective surgery, but I just don't like proceedures so I'll just wing it!"
How about a football player who doesn't run the plays in the playbook because he just likes to do his own thing?
Why is Christianity any different where you think you can just sort of wing it and do your own thing? And why don't you believe that an almighty God could'nt have preserved his words for generatios of his followers to live by?
Why do you and others like you think that one can be Christlan and not have a doctrine to follow? I know you've said you follow the words of Jesus, but I've showed you multiple bible verses from Jesus that I know you don't believe? Do you believe in a literal hell? Jesus did? Do you believe in demons? Jesus did? Do you believe in Adam and Eve? Jesus did? Jonah, Noah, Jesus did.
Almost every earthly discipline has rules or guidelines, but with your type of Christianity, one is to believe that you are free to simply follow your conscience and those words of Jesus that you agree with!
Would you walk into court and tell the judge," look your honor, I know the law says this and case law dictates such, but I don't feel like following it because it offends my sensibilities?"
Would a brain surgeon say," I know there is certain procedures that the medical books illustrate I must follow to perform a safe and effective surgery, but I just don't like proceedures so I'll just wing it!"
How about a football player who doesn't run the plays in the playbook because he just likes to do his own thing?
Why is Christianity any different where you think you can just sort of wing it and do your own thing? And why don't you believe that an almighty God could'nt have preserved his words for generatios of his followers to live by?
This post was edited on 1/9/14 at 2:47 am
1
Posted on 1/9/14 at 3:40 am to Revelator
quote:by the way, what is yours? Unfortunately, and scandalously, there are many varieties of Christianity so I'm just curious.
but with your type of Christianity
Posted on 1/9/14 at 4:05 am to JazzyJeff
quote:
by the way, what is yours? Unfortunately, and scandalously, there are many varieties of Christianity so I'm just curious.
The type that believes that the bible is God's word and it is a light unto our path and a lamp unto our feet.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 4:12 am to Revelator
Posted on 1/9/14 at 4:21 am to Vegas Bengal
quote:That's essentially the rub in every debate about God. On one hand, His morality must match ours to a reasonable extent, or we can't call him "good". On the other, His intellect, understanding and wisdom must be such that the idea of comprehending them should be nigh but impossible for man to understand. This issue encompasses everything about him.
He is. But the people who wrote the Bible are not. And there's the rub.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 4:21 am to Revelator
quote:denomination?
The type that believes that the bible is God's word and it is a light unto our path and a lamp unto our feet.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 4:23 am to JazzyJeff
I'd guess either Baptist or Church of Christ.
Maybe non - denominational; the worst of all possible doctrines.
Maybe non - denominational; the worst of all possible doctrines.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 4:29 am to JazzyJeff
quote:
denomination
I was raised Cathoilc and stopped going to church when I was about 17. Later I started attending a Baptist church where I've been for about 30 years. Some Southern Baptist, some independent. Why does it matter?
This post was edited on 1/9/14 at 4:30 am
Posted on 1/9/14 at 4:43 am to Revelator
quote:I thought you had some Southern Baptist in you. And it matters because your brand of Christianity is fueling the 'New Atheist' movement.
I was raised Cathoilc and stopped going to church when I was about 17. Later I started attending a Baptist church where I've been for about 30 years. Some Southern Baptist, some independent. Why does it matter?
Posted on 1/9/14 at 4:49 am to JazzyJeff
quote:
I thought you had some Southern Baptist in you. And it matters because your brand of Christianity is fueling the 'New Atheist' movement.
They've always had non believers and they always will. The doctrine of Christianity was much more fundamental thoroughly history than it is now, and it's still very fundamental in other counties where Christians are persecuted. If atheists need to blame someone for their unbelief or if others who call themselves Christian but would rather embrace the world instead of
Christ need an out, they can blame us fundamentals. It won't matter on judgment day when each one of us will have to answer for ourselves about our own lives.
1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things [that are] in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
This post was edited on 1/9/14 at 4:53 am
Posted on 1/9/14 at 5:01 am to Revelator
So . . .
A rendering of an early set of laws appears on government grounds.
Those laws became a founding basis of an early civilization which ultimately influenced our own.
Those same laws are represented in all sects of Jewish, Muslim, and Christian teachings.
Because of this, Satanists with no such historical basis, with no such legal contributory basis, in fact with no basis at all, want to place a statue representing their singular religion on state grounds.
Clearly the latter is an unwinnable request. It is stupid to the core, as is any court which doesn't throw the petitioners out on their ear. So, understanding that, atheists in this thread have converted to argument that the Bible is conflicted, and so God mustn't exist.
Does that about sum it up?
A rendering of an early set of laws appears on government grounds.
Those laws became a founding basis of an early civilization which ultimately influenced our own.
Those same laws are represented in all sects of Jewish, Muslim, and Christian teachings.
Because of this, Satanists with no such historical basis, with no such legal contributory basis, in fact with no basis at all, want to place a statue representing their singular religion on state grounds.
Clearly the latter is an unwinnable request. It is stupid to the core, as is any court which doesn't throw the petitioners out on their ear. So, understanding that, atheists in this thread have converted to argument that the Bible is conflicted, and so God mustn't exist.
Does that about sum it up?
Posted on 1/9/14 at 7:23 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Because of this, Satanists with no such historical basis, with no such legal contributory basis, in fact with no basis at all, want to place a statue representing their singular religion on state grounds.
Considering that all of the Christians have to believe in the Devil I'd say he is of the utmost importance to the religious Christians of Oklahoma.
That said, this posturing that somehow society should erect the Ten Commandments because of legal history is just absurd.
There are plenty of older or more important texts.
Therefore no Ten Commandments before the Magna Carta, Declaration of the Rights of Man, Code of Ur-Nammu, Code of Hammurabi, Charters of the various states from the crown, the intolerable acts, the laws of the 12 tables, a shrine to trial by jury in post-roman britain, and probably a copy of the squatters rights bills.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 7:45 am to MagicCityBlazer
quote:
Since all Christians believe in Satan shouldn't he considered important religiously.
quote:You're blabbering antichristian nonsense about subjects totally irrelevant to the OP. What Christians believe in terms of their specific Faith is not basis for the Commandments representation.
Considering that all of the Christians have to believe in the Devil I'd say he is of the utmost importance to the religious Christians of Oklahoma.
Sorry.
As much as you want the discussion to evolve into whether a Devil exists, or whether he has horns and a pointed tail, or whether Christians do or don't believe in Satan, it has no bearing on the OP.
None.
quote:Were that the subject of the OP, you might have semblance of an argument.
There are plenty of older or more important texts.
It isn't.
You don't.
This post was edited on 1/9/14 at 7:50 am
Posted on 1/9/14 at 8:00 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
You're blabbering antichristian nonsense
Am I?
Because to believe in the bible and God is to believe in the devil, therefore putting his visage in the public space shouldn't be so objectionable.
quote:
NC_Tigah
Since you are so concerned with what I am talking about then maybe you could inform me how I could not understand the ten commandments statue as a religious one in light of the more important legal history that was 'passed over' to reach the ten commandments.
Because from where I'm sitting the Satan monument sounds reasonable, because as a matter of faith christians must acknowledge belief in the devil and that the ten commandments are a purely religious statue.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 8:10 am to MagicCityBlazer
quote:
Because to believe in the bible and God is to believe in the devil, therefore putting his visage in the public space shouldn't be so objectionable.
quote:You are. But if you're interesting in blabbering more about it, start a thread.
Am I?
quote:Sounds as if you'd prefer a rendering of the Code of Hammurabi or Menes. Fine. Not the subject of the OP though.
maybe you could inform me how I could not understand the ten commandments statue as a religious one in light of the more important legal history that was 'passed over' to reach the ten commandments.
quote:The Ten Commandments are not basis of Faith. They exist. They are basis of early law. Faith is perhaps involved as to their origin, but that faith is not confined to one particular religion. Just as the statement, "In God we trust" is not confined to a particular religion.
Because from where I'm sitting the Satan monument sounds reasonable, because as a matter of faith
This post was edited on 1/9/14 at 8:13 am
Posted on 1/9/14 at 8:16 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
The Ten Commandments are not basis of Faith. They exist. They are basis of early law. Faith is perhaps involved as to their origin, but that faith is not confined to one particular religion. Just as the statement, "In God we trust" is not confined to a particular religion.
So when the Israelites left a land of laws in Egypt somehow the ten commandments are important?
Moses didn't invent laws, or writing them down.
In light of this revelation I would say absolutely the zeal for the ten commandments is entirely religious.
quote:
You are. But if you're interesting in blabbering more about it, start a thread.
Interesting that you don't follow your own advice.
For all the blabbering you've done here I'd say 'after you'.
This post was edited on 1/9/14 at 8:19 am
Posted on 1/9/14 at 8:19 am to MagicCityBlazer
quote:You don't know who Menes is, do you?quote:So when the Israelites left a land of laws in Egypt somehow the ten commandments are important?
Sounds as if you'd prefer a rendering of the Code of Hammurabi or Menes. Fine. Not the subject of the OP though.
Moses didn't invent laws, or writing them down.
In light of this revelation I would say absolutely the zeal for the ten commandments is entirely religious.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 8:46 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
NC_Tigah
quote:
You don't know who Menes is, do you?
You don't seem to understand the point I was making, that Moses' ten commandments were entirely over rated for legal history and the zeal for their statues is entirely religious.
The zeal for the satanist statue is religious too, but since we already have a religious statue up it should open the floodgates to every statue on religious grounds, including Brahmin, Vedas, Buddha, Satan, Islamic God, All-father Odin, etc.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 8:54 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
You don't know who Menes is, do you?
i do, but i wonder what he has to do with this discussion?
the menes/narmer palette doesn't include any written laws, just a representation of the unification of upper and lower egypt IIRC.
and for the record, there are busts of hammurabi AND a muslim ruler (!) who damn near conquered vienna at the us capitol building as a part of a collection of historical "lawgivers".
Posted on 1/9/14 at 8:56 am to MagicCityBlazer
quote:i understand perfectly the points you are trying to make . . .
You don't seem to understand the point I was making
quote:
Sounds as if you'd prefer a rendering of the Code of Hammurabi or Menes. Fine. Not the subject of the OP though.
Unfortunately, for anti-Christian, anti-Jew, anti-Muslim types like yourself, Satanists chose to request a religious statue rather than an alternative rendering of historic law. It's stupid strategy.
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