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Started By
Message
re: Satanists seek spot next to Ten Commandments monument on steps of OK's Statehous
Posted on 1/8/14 at 10:46 pm to Revelator
Posted on 1/8/14 at 10:46 pm to Revelator
quote:
God created two humans and they were both originally perfect. When they fell, sin entered into the world and murder was one of the consequences which we see displayed early on as Cain murdered his brother Abel.
So your God fricked up on the first thing he tried?!?
You need to switch Gods. Mine's perfect.
3
Posted on 1/8/14 at 10:47 pm to Vegas Bengal
quote:
You need to switch Gods. Mine's perfect.
Joe Pesci has never failed me...half of the time.
Posted on 1/8/14 at 10:47 pm to TideCPA
quote:
That's the thing about following that damned constitution. Everyone has a voice, no matter how crazy.
Having a voice and having a say are two different things. Pretty sure the Constitution was written to where it limits those who have a say.
Posted on 1/8/14 at 10:50 pm to constant cough
I never tire of quoting Lysander Spooner, especially in regards to the Constitution...
quote:
“But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case it is unfit to exist.”
Posted on 1/8/14 at 10:54 pm to HempHead
He does have a certain point there.
Posted on 1/8/14 at 10:55 pm to constant cough
quote:
Having a voice and having a say are two different things. Pretty sure the Constitution was written to where it limits those who have a say.
They were pretty good about limiting those who had a say to white landowners. Fortunately we've come a long way.
The problem is once you let one religious group have a say over what monuments get displayed on public land, you have to let every religious group have a say or else you are endorsing one religion over another and violating the establishment clause.
Posted on 1/8/14 at 11:05 pm to TideCPA
quote:
They were pretty good about limiting those who had a say to white landowners. Fortunately we've come a long way.
Have we come along way? The government is now more powerful than ever.
quote:
The problem is once you let one religious group have a say over what monuments get displayed on public land, you have to let every religious group have a say or else you are endorsing one religion over another and violating the establishment clause.
When the founders wrote the constitution they were protestants who meant to address freedom of the various christian faiths. No one christian faith the state was supposed to endorse. I don't think they meant it to apply to satanists or muslims.
Posted on 1/8/14 at 11:08 pm to constant cough
quote:
I don't think they meant it to apply to satanists or muslims.
quote:
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
- Treaty of Tripoli
Posted on 1/8/14 at 11:14 pm to HempHead
quote:
- Treaty of Tripoli
Is not the Constitution. What did you want them to say "Yeah we really don't like you Muslims but we don't want to fight a religious war over trade either"?
Posted on 1/8/14 at 11:16 pm to constant cough
quote:
When the founders wrote the constitution they were protestants who meant to address freedom of the various christian faiths. No one christian faith the state was supposed to endorse. I don't think they meant it to apply to satanists or muslims.
This is the most ridiculous thing I've read today. I needed a good chuckle before bed. Thanks.
Posted on 1/8/14 at 11:18 pm to TideCPA
quote:
This is the most ridiculous thing I've read today. I needed a good chuckle before bed. Thanks.
Solid rebuttal. How can one argue with that. Guess I should call it a night myself.
Posted on 1/8/14 at 11:22 pm to constant cough
quote:
Is not the Constitution.
If you are referring to the Consitution, could you point me towards an article that supports your claim that the founding fathers were Christians who simply did not want to discriminate upon denomination?
Posted on 1/8/14 at 11:34 pm to HempHead
quote:
If you are referring to the Consitution, could you point me towards an article that supports your claim that the founding fathers were Christians who simply did not want to discriminate upon denomination?
I thought it was fairly common knowledge that the founding fathers and early settlers were protestants that came to America to escape persecution. LINK
Or do you really think these 17th & 18th century men were concerned with the equal rights of satanists and muslims?
Posted on 1/8/14 at 11:37 pm to constant cough
I thought we were referring to the Constitution as the basis for this subject? If the Treaty of Tripoli is of no account, then surely documents from the Library of Congress are of similar value.
Posted on 1/8/14 at 11:42 pm to Vegas Bengal
quote:
So your God fricked up on the first thing he tried?!?
You need to switch Gods. Mine's perfect.
Who is your God?
Posted on 1/8/14 at 11:49 pm to HempHead
quote:
I thought we were referring to the Constitution as the basis for this subject? If the Treaty of Tripoli is of no account, then surely documents from the Library of Congress are of similar value.
Well you have to look at the times in which it was written. They didn't spell it out specifically cause they didn't feel they had to. It was understood to the public then what the freedom of religion clause was referring to seeing as how all the settlers here were of various Christian faiths.
You really think the founders were all like "Ok, well you guys realize this means if some satanist wants to put up his pentagram that means we can't say anything about it" No, cause there weren't any satanists back then, least not any who would publicly profess to be so. People understood that it was referring to freedom for different Christian faiths.
Posted on 1/8/14 at 11:50 pm to constant cough
Psssst... The people behind this really aren't satanists.
Posted on 1/8/14 at 11:52 pm to constant cough
If that is the case, do you believe that such should be the standard in this day and time, or has the Consitution become a thing of interpretation, rather than an immutable contract?
Following; if that was the understanding, what changed within the years between the ratification of the Consitution and the Treaty of Tripoli which would bear such a statement as, "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;.. "?
Following; if that was the understanding, what changed within the years between the ratification of the Consitution and the Treaty of Tripoli which would bear such a statement as, "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;.. "?
Posted on 1/8/14 at 11:58 pm to Vegas Bengal
quote:
You need to switch Gods. Mine's perfect.
Your gods name is Vegas Bengal and far from perfect.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 12:06 am to HempHead
quote:
If that is the case, do you believe that such should be the standard in this day and time, or has the Consitution become a thing of interpretation, rather than an immutable contract?
I'd say it's become a thing of interpretation. I'm not sure what exactly I believe. Some things are universal to mankind and are never changing and some things to need to be adjusted for the times I suppose. The thing about it is who gets to decide what, when, why or how something gets changed?
quote:
Following; if that was the understanding, what changed within the years between the ratification of the Consitution and the Treaty of Tripoli which would bear such a statement as, "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;.. "?
Well the Government wasn't founded on religion but by religious men who feared religious persecution which is why there is that freedom of religion clause.
As for the treaty I'm sure it was worded in a way that would cool the situation which was a trade issue and not a religious one.
Anyway I do have to go to bed now.
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