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Question about why people are against stimulus benefits?

Posted on 7/23/20 at 8:41 am
Posted by Tiger1242
Member since Jul 2011
31893 posts
Posted on 7/23/20 at 8:41 am
Look I default to the side of the government shouldn’t interfere, they shouldn’t tell us what to do, give us stuff, take something away etc.... UNLESS they have an incredibly good reason to do so that involves our safety and/or unarguable benefit to public wellness.

I look at this weekly stimulus for the currently unemployed as a necessity for many who lost jobs or are temporarily without work due to this pandemic/shutdown. I can get behind the idea that nobody should be getting paid more than 100% of what their salary is, but that’s so hard to figure out for hourly workers who’s wages change all the time, and taking last years tax returns doesn’t really work IMO because some people’s income can change drastically year to year.

So what is the argument against the stimulus? There are 100’s of thousands that are out of work at no fault of their own, not giving them a stimulus seems to be a great way to collapse the economy IMO.

This is not a thread arguing about whether or not the economy should be shut down, that’s a totally different discussion, this is about the idea that if the economy remains shutdown, people who can’t work because of that need the temporary stimulus in order to keep the economy running, and trying to give everyone a different amount based on income or projected income would be extremely difficult for the federal government to do. State unemployment already does that btw, so not all these people are getting the max (which I know in TX would be $550 in addition to the $600, but most wont get that much).
Posted by tigeraddict
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2007
11785 posts
Posted on 7/23/20 at 8:42 am to
look at size of national debt.... eventually it has a tipping point....

EDIT:

and how many are out of work by choice? and how many governors/mayors would open things back up if pressure of out of work voters hit home...

without the federal $600 added in, peeps in Louisiana would get up to $250ish/week with the fed money they get $850/wk that's $21.50/hr or $44,300/year. how many making $50/k or more would settle for unemployment and not haveing to work.....

throw in two working member in a household and both taking unemployment are getting $1700/wk to site home.....

Why work, when you can stay home.....
This post was edited on 7/23/20 at 8:52 am
Posted by conservativewifeymom
Mid Atlantic
Member since Oct 2012
11987 posts
Posted on 7/23/20 at 8:44 am to
These 'benefits' are essentially just printing more money. Unfortunately, the economy is sputtering, yes, but the answer is not to lower the value of the dollar and add to the national debt. Free money is not the answer in the long run, just a bandaid that will be very costly.
Posted by YumYum Sauce
Arkansas
Member since Nov 2010
8294 posts
Posted on 7/23/20 at 8:44 am to
I'm against anything that encourages people to not go back to work.

This is 100% A MAJOR problem right now in restaurants and bars. You're paying unskilled labor the equivalent of a 4 year degree's worth of salary to NOT work.


The state governments only allowing 50% occupancy is killing owners and servers. They have no incentive to go back to work as long as they're making 52k a year to sit at home.

As far as actual stimulus checks, they're bullshite unless every single tax paying citizen gets one. period.
Posted by Party At LSU
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2005
10691 posts
Posted on 7/23/20 at 8:45 am to
$600 a week plus $250 from state unemployment is a great incentive to sit at home and not return to work. And it has nothing to do with “compassion” for the unemployed. It’s a tactic to keep the unemployment numbers spiked so they can blame it on Trump leading up to the election.
Posted by momentoftruth87
Member since Oct 2013
71097 posts
Posted on 7/23/20 at 8:45 am to
Its technically our money, but then we will have to pay with our money. Why do people need an extra $1200? Why is it only $1200?
Posted by ShortyRob
Member since Oct 2008
82116 posts
Posted on 7/23/20 at 8:46 am to
quote:

So what is the argument against the stimulus?


1. It provided more $$ than people were getting working. Which, was/is retarded.

2. MOST IMPORTANTLY, it's being done to make people OK with the shut down.

quote:

So what is the argument against the stimulus?


Since you repeated I'll add

1. We shouldn't be shut down

2. The stimulus is nothing more than a device to prolong the shut down.
Posted by idlewatcher
County Jail
Member since Jan 2012
78856 posts
Posted on 7/23/20 at 8:46 am to
I'm against it personally because we are a fiscally very irresponsible country when it comes to money - probably b/c we have too much of it.

With the taxes we pay every year on everything, I'm inclined to go along with it, but it does create a de facto nanny state and I'm not down with that.

With that said, I feel sorry for the food service industry workers. They're getting a raw deal with these shutdowns.
Posted by LuckyTiger
Someone's Alter
Member since Dec 2008
45143 posts
Posted on 7/23/20 at 8:47 am to
It costs a shite ton.

If people weren’t getting borrowed taxpayer money they would be clamoring to end these bull shite lockdowns and get back to work.
Posted by ShortyRob
Member since Oct 2008
82116 posts
Posted on 7/23/20 at 8:47 am to
I will add a more general reality.

When attempting to solve a problem...………..ANY problem...……….your solutions have to be sustainable. And, if the problem is a problem that could reasonably be foreseen as repeating itself, your solutions must be BOTH sustainable AND repeatable.

NOTHING about what we are doing in response to this virus meets EITHER of those criteria.
Posted by wutangfinancial
Treasure Valley
Member since Sep 2015
11066 posts
Posted on 7/23/20 at 8:48 am to
The checks to tax payers isn't the issue. It's the PPP loans and the monetary stimulus. It's the reason tLibs bitch about monopolies, wealth concentration and large corporations. All you get is more concentration, less competition and more regulation. It's a fun positive feedback loop when you combine that with 0% rates.
Posted by HailToTheChiz
Back in Auburn
Member since Aug 2010
48886 posts
Posted on 7/23/20 at 8:48 am to
quote:

I'm against anything that encourages people to not go back to work.

This is 100% A MAJOR problem right now in restaurants and bars. You're paying unskilled labor the equivalent of a 4 year degree's worth of salary to NOT work.


This right here. If we keep doing this it becomes tougher to take away. Like welfare in general
Posted by LSU Patrick
Member since Jan 2009
73399 posts
Posted on 7/23/20 at 8:49 am to
These spending bills only have short-term unpredictable effects on elections, but they have long-term detrimental effects on the middle class.
Posted by Angry Bruce Pearl
Florida
Member since Jul 2020
599 posts
Posted on 7/23/20 at 8:49 am to
What is there to even stimulate? Bars are closed, movie theaters are closed, nearly every restaurant is takeout only, domestic travel (air or not) is way down, amusement parks are at a tiny fraction of capacity etc etc. At this point it's like the little Dutch boy with his fingers in the dam. You're just giving money to people that will either save it or use it to pay for basic necessities and not put it back into the local economy. We have to get back to work.
Posted by KiwiHead
Auckland, NZ
Member since Jul 2014
27313 posts
Posted on 7/23/20 at 8:50 am to
quote:

eventually it has a tipping point


I am beginning to think that is no longer true under the current monetary scheme. We said this in regards to TARP and the subsequent QE's.....we got stock market surges. We just had a huge welfare transfer......stock market surges. The stock market ostensibly is sensitive to this metric, but in reality it is decoupled from it because it sees this debt issue as an illusion...at worst. Think about it, after TARP and all the QE'S the Velocity of Money theory should have been proven. It never reared its disfigured head.
Posted by Tiger1242
Member since Jul 2011
31893 posts
Posted on 7/23/20 at 8:50 am to
These are all good replies, I understand we have a national debt that is growing and I understand that there are many that may feel incentivized to stay home and not work because of the stimulus.

I totally agree that this is a band-aid but sometimes band-aids are what you need. These people choosing not to work will not be able to forever, it’s a temporary stimulus and IMO until economies are able to reopen it is a solid way to keep people afloat while they can’t work do to the shutdown.

I know it’s not a perfect plan but it’s better than letting these people collapse into debt, which may permanently damage the economy beyond what is already being done
Posted by 20 ton
BR
Member since Aug 2013
794 posts
Posted on 7/23/20 at 8:50 am to
I’ve talked to several restaurant owners here in BR. To a person they have had problems getting some workers back because of the amount. $600 may be necessary in NY but not BR.

The question is not do people need help, but how to taylor that help in a positive way. Keep people paying bills while looking for any work, not just their chosen profession at the moment. People need to make an effort not just sit back and let the Government bring it to them.
Posted by cssamerican
Member since Mar 2011
7104 posts
Posted on 7/23/20 at 8:51 am to
There will be another stimulus, simply because politicians want to be re-elected in a few months. The stimulus plans will disappear after November because they are bad monetary policy.
Posted by Linigus
Member since May 2020
127 posts
Posted on 7/23/20 at 8:51 am to
All is being paid with borrowed money. The broke helping the broke is a recipe for disaster.
Posted by LSUJML
BR
Member since May 2008
45158 posts
Posted on 7/23/20 at 8:52 am to
The more stimulus means the longer the country stays shut down
A 1200.00 check isn’t going to help me if I lose my business

I am making bottom dollar trying to get a small business established
I know I’m lucky I’m still getting anything, so many peoples lives have been destroyed & a stimulus isn’t going to bring their business back
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