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Posted by
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Ninth Circus: Murder is not a crime of violence.
Posted by FalseProphet on 8/21/19 at 11:37 am391
This is what you get when judges think they are smarter than anyone else in the room. I'll spare you the legal arguments, which are extremely technical (the opinion is embedded in the article if you want to read it), but the gist is that the court found that the elements of murder do not neatly match the elements of a crime of violence, so, we get this absurd ruling. The court admits that less serious offenses (such as burglary, robbery, kidnapping, etc.) are crimes of violence, but, trying to prove they are smarter by half, ultimately conclude that murder just isn't covered.
At least one judge wasn't buying this lunacy. Here's the opening to his dissent:
Yes. You really should rethink your thought process when a fellow judge throws a Zoolander quote at you in an effort to show just how dumb the ruling is.
I really do try to defend courts, even the Ninth, because they get it right most of the time. But then, something like this happens, and all faith is lost.
At least one judge wasn't buying this lunacy. Here's the opening to his dissent:
quote:
MURDER in the second-degree is NOT a crime of violence??? Yet attempted first-degree murder, battery, assault, exhibiting a firearm, criminal threats (even attempted criminal threats8), and mailing threatening communications are crimes of violence. How can this be? “I feel like I am taking crazy pills.”
Yes. You really should rethink your thought process when a fellow judge throws a Zoolander quote at you in an effort to show just how dumb the ruling is.
I really do try to defend courts, even the Ninth, because they get it right most of the time. But then, something like this happens, and all faith is lost.
This post was edited on 8/21 at 11:38 am
re: Ninth Circus: Murder is not a crime of violence.Posted by upgrayedd on 8/21/19 at 11:39 am to FalseProphet
dawgfan24348 and aggiehank will be here shortly to tell us how this ruling is correct
re: Ninth Circus: Murder is not a crime of violence.Posted by idlewatcher on 8/21/19 at 11:39 am to FalseProphet
Disgraceful.
Attempted murder is but actual murder isn't?
Attempted murder is but actual murder isn't?
re: Ninth Circus: Murder is not a crime of violence.Posted by WorkinDawg on 8/21/19 at 11:40 am to FalseProphet
And folks wonder why the great unwashed would vote for someone like Trump....
re: Ninth Circus: Murder is not a crime of violence.Posted by Ace Midnight on 8/21/19 at 11:41 am to FalseProphet
This would be inexplicable if the panel wasn't composed of trained lawyers.
But, because it is, it is easily explainable.
fricking lawyers.
But, because it is, it is easily explainable.
fricking lawyers.
re: Ninth Circus: Murder is not a crime of violence.Posted by Hester Carries on 8/21/19 at 11:42 am to FalseProphet
Wouldnt non-violent murder (aka unintentional) be manslaughter?
re: Ninth Circus: Murder is not a crime of violence.Posted by idlewatcher on 8/21/19 at 11:45 am to FalseProphet
A Florida delivery man was arrested for the death of an elderly woman Monday after he attacked her and set her on fire, authorities say.
The Boca Raton Police Department confirmed in a press release that Jorge Luis Dupre Lachazo, 21, has been charged with first degree murder, arson and armed burglary.
He admitted to police that he bashed the victim on the side of the head with a wooden mallet before dousing her in a liquid chemical found in the garage, according to the affidavit, but he denied knowing what had ignited the fire.
The 75-year-old unidentified victim was transported to Delray Medical Center where she died from her injuries Tuesday.
Lachazo and another delivery man were installing appliances in the victim’s home when the attack happened.
Yup, this definitely is not violence at all.
The Boca Raton Police Department confirmed in a press release that Jorge Luis Dupre Lachazo, 21, has been charged with first degree murder, arson and armed burglary.
He admitted to police that he bashed the victim on the side of the head with a wooden mallet before dousing her in a liquid chemical found in the garage, according to the affidavit, but he denied knowing what had ignited the fire.
The 75-year-old unidentified victim was transported to Delray Medical Center where she died from her injuries Tuesday.
Lachazo and another delivery man were installing appliances in the victim’s home when the attack happened.
Yup, this definitely is not violence at all.
re: Ninth Circus: Murder is not a crime of violence.Posted by Saint Alfonzo on 8/21/19 at 11:50 am to FalseProphet
I agree with the ruling. Murder isn't always violent. I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die.
re: Ninth Circus: Murder is not a crime of violence.Posted by AggieHank86 on 8/21/19 at 11:56 am to upgrayedd
quote:I have no idea whether this ruling is — or is not — correct, and I do not care enough to conduct a legal analysis of the case.
dawgfan24348 and aggiehank will be here shortly to tell us how this ruling is correct
Is important to remember, however, that the court’s job is to read the relevant statute and apply it. It is not the court’s job to determine whether that statute makes sense.
As soon as judges assume the job of determining whether they think a statute makes sense, we have legislation from the bench. I know that I do not like seeing a court do that.
If the problem is a poorly-written statute, the complaint lies with the legislature… not the courts. Based only upon this single news article, this would seem to be the case here.
Again based ONLY upon the article, it seems that the “crime of violence” enhancement requires affirmative intent. Affirmative intent IS an element of the “attempted” offense, but is NOT an element of the 2nd degree homicide offense.
This post was edited on 8/21 at 12:03 pm
re: Ninth Circus: Murder is not a crime of violence.Posted by Bard on 8/21/19 at 11:58 am to FalseProphet
How is a murder not violent?
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re: Ninth Circus: Murder is not a crime of violence.Posted by upgrayedd on 8/21/19 at 12:01 pm to AggieHank86
There he is
re: Ninth Circus: Murder is not a crime of violence.Posted by AggieHank86 on 8/21/19 at 12:05 pm to upgrayedd
quote:You can attack the messenger, or you can read the message. Your choice.
There he is
re: Ninth Circus: Murder is not a crime of violence.Posted by FalseProphet on 8/21/19 at 12:08 pm to AggieHank86
I don’t know how you got that this was a statutory problem from that article. The interpretive gymnastics the majority went through to reach this result would have gotten them a gold medical in the trying too hard olympics.
re: Ninth Circus: Murder is not a crime of violence.Posted by SlapahoeTribe on 8/21/19 at 12:09 pm to FalseProphet
So is the 9th also going to invalidate all hate-crime statutes?
re: Ninth Circus: Murder is not a crime of violence.Posted by hogcard1964 on 8/21/19 at 12:09 pm to AggieHank86
That's some insane/liberal reasoning right there.
re: Ninth Circus: Murder is not a crime of violence.Posted by Pettifogger on 8/21/19 at 12:11 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
I have no idea whether this ruling is — or is not — correct, and I do not care enough to conduct a legal analysis of the case.
Is important to remember, however, that the court’s job is to read the relevant statute and apply it. It is not the court’s job to determine whether that statute makes sense.
As soon as judges assume the job of determining whether they think a statute makes sense, we have legislation from the bench. I know that I do not like seeing a court do that.
If the problem is a poorly-written statute, the complaint lies with the legislature… not the courts. Based only upon this single news article, this would seem to be the case here.
Again based ONLY upon the article, it seems that the “crime of violence” enhancement requires affirmative intent. Affirmative intent IS an element of the “attempted” offense, but is NOT an element of the 2nd degree homicide offense.
This is a sober and well reasoned argument
downvote
re: Ninth Circus: Murder is not a crime of violence.Posted by Ace Midnight on 8/21/19 at 12:14 pm to FalseProphet
Nelson - a 91-year old senior status judge, appointed directly to the Ninth Circus from her spot as dean of UCLA Law School by Jimmy fricking Carter.
Clifton penned this thing and was a recess appointment by W.
Smith also an appointment by W. (FIVE times before being confirmed by the Senate), also senior status.
Clifton penned this thing and was a recess appointment by W.
Smith also an appointment by W. (FIVE times before being confirmed by the Senate), also senior status.
re: Ninth Circus: Murder is not a crime of violence.Posted by AggieHank86 on 8/21/19 at 12:14 pm to FalseProphet
quote:Again
I don’t know how you got that this was a statutory problem from that article. The interpretive gymnastics the majority went through to reach this result would have gotten them a gold medical in the trying too hard olympics.
quote:
Again based ONLY upon the article, it seems that the “crime of violence” enhancement requires affirmative intent. Affirmative intent IS an element of the “attempted” offense, but is NOT an element of the 2nd degree homicide offense.
re: Ninth Circus: Murder is not a crime of violence.Posted by CamdenTiger on 8/21/19 at 12:15 pm to Dale51
It’s an act of love, just ask Alisa Milano.
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