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GeneralLee
LSU Fan
Member since Aug 2004
8885 posts

Modified Manchin Toomey background check bill may have Trump's support
Looks like it will expand background checks to gun shows and commercial sales, but not include background checks on all sales between two individuals. Thoughts on damage to Trump if he were to support this? See Manu Raju twitter for background details on the discussion Murphy, Manchin, and Toomey had with Trump today.

Maybe this threads the needle of looking like he's "doing something" on gun violence while not destroying the Second Amendment. Background checks at gun shows and commercial sales would not be a backdoor to a gun registry, while universal background checks would.
This post was edited on 9/11 at 12:02 pm


dakarx
Army Fan
Member since Sep 2018
643 posts

re: Modified Manchin Toomey background check bill may have Trump's support
That's the law as it stands now.


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281
jbgleason
LSU Fan
BTR, suck it all you haters
Member since Mar 2012
12310 posts

re: Modified Manchin Toomey background check bill may have Trump's support
I would need to see the text of this bill because that is already the law.


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141
Chappy
LSU Fan
G-Town
Member since Jul 2007
3307 posts

re: Modified Manchin Toomey background check bill may have Trump's support
I wasn’t aware there were commercial sales without checks. How does that occur?


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171
HailHailtoMichigan!
LSU Fan
Trabuco Canyon, CA
Member since Mar 2012
54785 posts
 Online 

re: Modified Manchin Toomey background check bill may have Trump's support
It is already illegal to engage in a commercial sale of a firearm without conducting BC


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111
bmy
East Carolina Fan
Nashville
Member since Oct 2007
46437 posts

re: Modified Manchin Toomey background check bill may have Trump's support
President Trump
Everybody has their own bill. If we could have one terrific bill that everybody — started by the people around this take. Special people. These are the people that seem to be most interested, very interested in this problem. It’s a big problem. So, with that, I think I would like to start. Maybe you can ask John, you can start off and we’ll go back and forth. We’ll leave the media for a while and they can leave us with some thought. There’s something that can be done.

There’s no reason for this. I really believe that those people, it’s idealistic, wonderful, a beautiful thing. If you think that somebody is going to be able to walk into a school, if they feel that they’re not going to have bullets coming at them from the other direction, you’re never going to solve the problem. I feel that. I feel that. But I’m certainly open to suggestions. So, John, why don’t you start? You’ve put in your Fix NICS. Let’s see how it is and we’ll go ahead.

Sen. John Cornyn
Thank you, Mr. President.

Thank you for getting us together and expressing your sincere concern about this and trying to get us to a solution. And going home empty handed is unacceptable. It’s hard to get people together on a bipartisan basis. Sutherland Springs, we lost 26 people when a guy, convicted felon, convicted of domestic violence, less than honorable discharge from the military, none of which was uploaded into the background check system maintained by the FBI. That’s only as good as the data put into it.

So 46 Senate colleagues on the bipartisan basis have what we think is a start. It’s not the end all be all. Other things that people want to add to it. We talked about the bump stock issue that I know Sen. Feinstein cares passionately about.

President Trump
I’m going to essentially write that out. We can do that with an executive order. I’m essentially going to write it out. You won’t have to worry about bump stock. Shortly, that will be gone. We can focus on other things. Frankly, I don’t know that it would be good to have it be in this bill. We’ll have that done. They’re working on it quickly. Go ahead.

Sen. John Cornyn
We need to get started on things only we could do, this background check system. People have other ideas, they ought to offer those ideas. I’m not sure all of them will pass but in the past we’ve acquiesced to failure and have not done things that we know were within our power to accomplish, like the Fix NICS Bill. So I would like to recommend to you and to my colleagues that we get that done and build on it. We don’t stop there. We build on it. None of us want to look these families in the face in the wake of another mass shooting and say we failed to do everything within our power to stop it.

President Trump
And, John, Fix NICS has some really good things in it. It would be nice if we could add everything on to it and maybe change the title, all right? The U.S. Background check bill or whatever. Your bill is really good and really important, having to do with a certain aspect. Maybe we could make it much more comprehensive and have one bill instead of 15 different bills and nobody knows what’s happening.

If we can get 60 votes for it, Mr. President, I’m all for it.

President Trump
I think you can. I think this is one of the things you can actually get the 60 votes and maybe easily. Dianne, do you have something?

...

President Trump
We have a case where can you buy a handgun at 21. This isn’t a popular thing to say in terms of the NRA but I’m going to say it anyway.

I just have to say it. You can’t buy — think of it. You can buy a handgun. You can’t buy one. You have to wait until you’re 21. You can buy the kind of weapon used in the school shooting at 18. I think it’s something you have to think about.

Sen. Pat Toomey

Would you sign that?

President Trump
I’ll tell you what, I’m going to give it a lot of consideration. And I’m the one bringing it up. People aren’t bringing it up because they’re afraid to bring it up. You can’t buy a handgun at 18, 19 or 20. You have to wait until you’re 21. You could buy the weapon used in this horrible shooting at 18. You are going to decide, the people in this room pretty much, are going to decide. I would give very serious thought to it
This post was edited on 9/11 at 12:08 pm


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Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
37047 posts

re: Modified Manchin Toomey background check bill may have Trump's support
quote:

Looks like it will expand background checks to gun shows and commercial sales, but not include background checks on all sales between two individuals.
What’s different?


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bamarep
Alabama Fan
Monkey Town
Member since Nov 2013
43759 posts

re: Modified Manchin Toomey background check bill may have Trump's support
SOmething just doesn't seem right about an 18 y/o person not being able to buy the same weapon they can sign up through the military and kill someone with.

If 18 is good enough for one, it should be good enough for the other.


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CHSTigersFan
LSU Fan
Charleston, Arkansas
Member since Jan 2005
987 posts

re: Modified Manchin Toomey background check bill may have Trump's support
quote:

able to buy the same weapon they can sign up through the military and kill someone with.
You can't buy the same gun at a store that you can get in the military. Military is select fire, civilian is semi-automatic.


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arcalades
USA Fan
USA
Member since Feb 2014
8341 posts

re: Modified Manchin Toomey background check bill may have Trump's support
quote:

SOmething just doesn't seem right about an 18 y/o person not being able to buy the same weapon they can sign up through the military and kill someone with.

supreme court would surely strike that down. That's a violation of Heller and 2nd Amendment.


Dead End
USA Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2013
17916 posts
 Online 

re: Modified Manchin Toomey background check bill may have Trump's support
quote:

gun shows and commercial sales,


There is no gun show loop hole....



shinerfan
LSU Fan
Duckworld(Earth-616)
Member since Sep 2009
15401 posts
 Online 

re: Modified Manchin Toomey background check bill may have Trump's support
quote:


There is no gun show loop hole....



In theory private sellers at gun shows aren't required to do checks, (at least by the government, I believe most gun shows do require checks on all sales). But the reality is that there are no private sellers at gun shows. They were squeezed out by online retailers 25 years ago. A booth at a podunk gun show is outrageously expensive.


Ace Midnight
LSU Fan
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
69015 posts
 Online 

re: Modified Manchin Toomey background check bill may have Trump's support
quote:

supreme court would surely strike that down. That's a violation of Heller and 2nd Amendment.


Has the 21-year old handgun ban ever been challenged?

I think the "extended adolescence" policies are wrong - 18 for voting, but you have to be 21 or older to escort children to higher rated films.

Lower BAL thresholds for drivers under a certain age, but you can be drafted at 18, but can't buy a handgun until 21. Hell, you can enlist at 17 with parental permission. You can get married younger than that in places with permission - MARRIED.

26 to be on your parent's insurance.

I'm all for a certain amount of States' rights to decide ages of certain things, but fundamental rights should be available to all adult citizens not otherwise precluded. They're equating being 18 or 19 with being a felon or having a mental illness.

frick that.



Ace Midnight
LSU Fan
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
69015 posts
 Online 

re: Modified Manchin Toomey background check bill may have Trump's support
quote:

In theory private sellers at gun shows aren't required to do checks


Which is not a loophole. It falls more in the category of "being a private citizen."

FFL holders are required to do such checks, not because their rights are being constrained, but because they voluntarily applied for a FFL and agreed to its terms. (ETA: They get certain privileges in return for this agreement - privileges that used to be a given, like buying firearms via the U.S. mail, but I digress.)


There...is...no...gun...show...loophole.
This post was edited on 9/11 at 2:58 pm


bamarep
Alabama Fan
Monkey Town
Member since Nov 2013
43759 posts

re: Modified Manchin Toomey background check bill may have Trump's support
There are a few cases working their way through the system of people challenging the 18 y/o thing.


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shinerfan
LSU Fan
Duckworld(Earth-616)
Member since Sep 2009
15401 posts
 Online 

re: Modified Manchin Toomey background check bill may have Trump's support
quote:

Which is not a loophole. It falls more in the category of "being a private citizen."





My point was that the characterization as a loophole is moot because private sellers have been gone from gun shows for decades. And most, probably all, gun shows have been covering their arse by requiring checks on all sales since those long ago days when there were private sellers at gun shows. This is all underscored by the recurring story of "investigative journalists" trying and failing to gotcha the gun shows.


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