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re: Instead of student loan debt forgiveness, just make it dischargeable...
Posted on 6/24/19 at 6:42 pm to moneyg
Posted on 6/24/19 at 6:42 pm to moneyg
moneyg
While your statement has merit, I doesn't take things in context.
1. Major changes. Most college students change their major once, sometimes up to 3 times (more in certain situations). This is okay but half of the programs aren't worth the paper they are printed on.
Trades are a great solution to this. But many dont really know what's out there (I know I would have went to vocational school with what I learned post BS). But this leads us to
2. Degree culture and the job market. Most jobs REQUIRE or heavily imply they was a BS student. AS for specialized skills like vocations.
Yes, you have examples of high school graduates landung great jobs, but they are the outlier not the norm. And jobs this board loves to talk about (being a truck driver, etc) requires some form of training in order to get the license required. At that point your no longer "just a highschooler". You are a professional, it just so happens your profession requires minimal time sink.
3. Economy. If this is bad, nothing else really matters. You have many graduates who have no choice but to work outside their field. This can happen to good degrees as well.
While your statement has merit, I doesn't take things in context.
1. Major changes. Most college students change their major once, sometimes up to 3 times (more in certain situations). This is okay but half of the programs aren't worth the paper they are printed on.
Trades are a great solution to this. But many dont really know what's out there (I know I would have went to vocational school with what I learned post BS). But this leads us to
2. Degree culture and the job market. Most jobs REQUIRE or heavily imply they was a BS student. AS for specialized skills like vocations.
Yes, you have examples of high school graduates landung great jobs, but they are the outlier not the norm. And jobs this board loves to talk about (being a truck driver, etc) requires some form of training in order to get the license required. At that point your no longer "just a highschooler". You are a professional, it just so happens your profession requires minimal time sink.
3. Economy. If this is bad, nothing else really matters. You have many graduates who have no choice but to work outside their field. This can happen to good degrees as well.
1
Posted on 6/24/19 at 6:46 pm to Big Scrub TX
I'd say a waiting period before they become dischargeable. Something like 10 or 15 years. After that period, go ahead and let them discharge them. Hell, even the IRS only gets 10 years to try and collect.
This post was edited on 6/24/19 at 8:56 pm
Posted on 6/25/19 at 8:34 am to moneyg
quote:
This is the second time you've offered a solution (welfare) that is equivalent to your stated problem (welfare).
Nope, not once have I suggested forgiveness. Nor will I. I've just been saying that the idea of this being some issue isolated to dirty, soyboy California hippies that paid $200K to get into a liberal arts school is just misplaced. I have plenty of conservative friends back in the South that have gotten degrees in things like agricultural education that also struggle with it.
The solution? I dunno. I made a C in economics. Maybe basing the repayment plans on monthly net income minus housing/rent payment and private student loans. In my mind, students would still have to pay off their loan (granted, over a longer amount of time) but they would be given some slack and have more wiggle room to save money and contribute to the housing market and the economy in general.
But, like I said, a C in economics. So maybe I'm off base here.
Posted on 6/25/19 at 8:37 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
Tuition costs didn’t skyrocket until unlimited funds were made available for students to pay for it.
Posted on 6/25/19 at 8:43 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
The debt is the symptom of the problem
Agree
quote:
Tuition costs are where we need to make changes
If by "make changes" you mean for the Fed to stay the hell out of colleges then I agree
Posted on 6/25/19 at 8:48 am to volod
quote:
While your statement has merit, I doesn't take things in context.
quote:
1. Major changes. Most college students change their major once, sometimes up to 3 times (more in certain situations).
I find it humorous that you think the taxpayer should foot the bill for students changing their major. Your entire perspective is so self-centric that you can't even fathom personal responsibility for your choices...even when it's clear as day that those choices could destroy you if they are made poorly (taking out a loan for a worthless degree).
quote:
Degree culture and the job market. Most jobs REQUIRE or heavily imply they was a BS student
The cost of education is a problem that is caused by the unnatural influx of available money. The symptom you mentioned above is a logical result of everyone having a degree. In other words, you just found another way to prove government intervention is a problem.
quote:
Economy. If this is bad, nothing else really matters
What meaningless point. Everyone at some time in their life will see a dip in the economy and have to deal with it. It shouldn't absolve someone from repaying loans.
Posted on 6/25/19 at 9:05 am to Big Scrub TX
quote:
like most other debt
It is a decent idea, in theory, but would have to be prospective only.
As it is now, they will loan to anybody/everbody because:
A. It is not dischargeable (under most circumstances), and
B. If the borrower defaults, the government makes them whole
So, if you make it "most other debt", then lenders will have to evaluate risk and/or charge for it like other debts. How will they respond when the "poor" credit risks (which will certainly look disproportionately minority) get denied and the "good" credit risks (which will certainly look disproportionately white) get approved for student loans?
Again - I agree with you - in theory. We cannot change the rules midstream for the $1 trillion (with a T) + package of loans out there, but we could do something going forward.
A popular notion on this board is to end the practice of loaning money for non-revenue degrees (poli sci, gender/race studies, sociology, etc.) and that this, alone, will mitigate a huge portion of this problem - $75k in student loan debt to take that degree in feminist poetry from the 19th Century to work at a coffee shop. "Well, sister, I could have saved you a lot of time and other people's money."
There is also a lot of wisdom in that proposal.
Posted on 6/25/19 at 9:48 am to Big Scrub TX
No.
I dont like the fact that some debts can be discharged.
A debt owed, is a debt owed. I would rather bring back debtor prisons. Maybe it would teach people to be more responsible so they dont go to jail for buying stuff they cannot afford.
I dont like the fact that some debts can be discharged.
A debt owed, is a debt owed. I would rather bring back debtor prisons. Maybe it would teach people to be more responsible so they dont go to jail for buying stuff they cannot afford.
Posted on 6/25/19 at 9:56 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
Again - I agree with you - in theory. We cannot change the rules midstream for the $1 trillion (with a T) + package of loans out there, but we could do something going forward.
A popular notion on this board is to end the practice of loaning money for non-revenue degrees (poli sci, gender/race studies, sociology, etc.) and that this, alone, will mitigate a huge portion of this problem - $75k in student loan debt to take that degree in feminist poetry from the 19th Century to work at a coffee shop. "Well, sister, I could have saved you a lot of time and other people's money."
There is also a lot of wisdom in that proposal.
I agree wholeheartedly. Basing your lending decision on the expected ROI makes all the sense in the world. If we don't correct the system going forward then whatever steps are taken with current borrowers (if any) is just pissing into the wind.
This post was edited on 6/25/19 at 10:02 am
Posted on 6/26/19 at 11:05 am to upgrayedd
quote:I think it depends on what part of the market you are talking about. I would argue that the top 30-50 schools are clearly underpriced - government or no government.
The common theme is that the government is getting involved and manipulating the market thus causing these problems. These debts are so large because these universities have an infinite amount of guaranteed cash coming in with no risk.
Posted on 6/26/19 at 11:24 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:Profs who don't teach should be set free to find work in market based research programs.
Tuition costs are where we need to make changes
And, get rid of tenure. The concept that it protects free thought has been completely destroyed by censorship of all but Leftist ideology.
The dead wood in higher education is beyond absurd.
This post was edited on 6/26/19 at 11:27 am
Posted on 6/26/19 at 11:51 am to HogX
quote:
hat's the equivalent of owing 60% of their yearly income out of college. Now obviously, their salary should steadily increase over the years.
That's the thing, they haven't. Stagnant wages have allowed the upper echelon to further distance themselves with the lower portion owning all of the debt.
Posted on 6/26/19 at 12:02 pm to alphaandomega
quote:
No.
I dont like the fact that some debts can be discharged.
A debt owed, is a debt owed. I would rather bring back debtor prisons. Maybe it would teach people to be more responsible so they dont go to jail for buying stuff they cannot afford.
In your scenario Trump would be in prison.
Posted on 6/26/19 at 12:04 pm to boogiewoogie1978
No he wouldn't you idiot.
Posted on 6/26/19 at 12:05 pm to HogX
quote:
If we don't correct the system going forward then whatever steps are taken with current borrowers (if any) is just pissing into the wind.
True. The expense of college doesn't match the value of the degree in many cases. I think a question we should be asking is why colleges are so expensive (I know the loan system plays a big role) when it's possible to get a world class education for practically free on youtube?
Numerous real universities are moving programs online already. It does take investment in IT infrastructure to support it, but having students learn from home reduces the demand on facilities. It let's professors be able to film one lecture and use it for years, freeing them up to do more research or for universities to just not need as many. An increased push in the online direction should end up lowering costs long term.
Posted on 6/26/19 at 12:20 pm to Janky
quote:
No he wouldn't you idiot.
How so? He's filed bankruptcy many times.
The post says "a debt owed is a debt owed".
That means he would be in prison. Follow along.
Posted on 6/26/19 at 12:46 pm to baobabtiger
quote:Just like healthcare.
Tuition costs didn’t skyrocket until unlimited funds were made available for students to pay for it.
Posted on 6/26/19 at 1:14 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
like most other debt (including credit cards.) That way, the student borrower will have to actually make a long-term life decision: do I ruin my credit for 7 years or not?
Honestly Scrub most would take the 7 year hit which would put someone in their late 20's/ early 30's when the debt is discharged .
7 years is a relatively short period & many companies will still extend higher interest rate terms if you Really need it. But most would be happy driving their car for 7 years & saving for a home down payment when the Student loan discharges.
You'd be shocked( not me) at how many would walk away & get a fresh start in 7 years.
Posted on 6/26/19 at 1:18 pm to boogiewoogie1978
No he wouldn’t
fricking moron
fricking moron
Posted on 6/26/19 at 1:20 pm to Big Scrub TX
The problem people seem to fail to realize is that the majority of these loans are government-backed. It’s so easy to delay paying back loans due to forbearance or something else. The vast majority of these tax-payer funded loans will likely never be paid off.
This post was edited on 6/26/19 at 1:21 pm
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