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Message
re: If masks are so great
Posted on 7/13/20 at 8:02 am to Froman
Posted on 7/13/20 at 8:02 am to Froman
quote:
Yep. There’s a lot more info saying the masks work than not, but these anti-mask losers don’t give a shite. I wish natural selection would just wipe them out.
wow, ... that's a pretty extremist viewpoint towards those that simply have a different viewpoint than your own ... one that is perhaps based on different information being made available to them.
I find that the term "masks" is intentionally vague ... and can reference many different variants ... a point that is conveniently overlooked or omitted when discussing the requirement to wear one.
"What type of mask, specifically?" ... is usually my question.
As a certified med tech I can assure you that an N-95 grade mask (most common) is the equivalent of putting a band-aid on a femoral hemorrhage ... it is patently useless in preventing the spread of a viral agent with the characteristics of Covid-19. This is fact, not opinion.
Don't believe the MSM ... they have a targeted political agenda.
Do your own due diligence, ... educate yourself.
0
Posted on 7/13/20 at 8:04 am to da prophet
quote:
masks
I think back to how, in China, folks always seemed to wear masks everywhere prior to this. I always thought it was weird, and now i see the attempt to make it "normal" here in America.
Posted on 7/13/20 at 8:07 am to Hat Tricks
quote:
quote:
4. The CDC doesn’t recommend mask for healthily people not showing symptoms, only for sick people displaying symptoms (and probably recommends a medical mask).
I don't agree with mask mandates but this is wrong. CDC recommends people wear masks in a public setting. The problem is that the CDC has been on just about every end of every possible spectrum regarding Coronavirus.
It's WHO that doesn't recommend universal face mask mandates and claims face masks are ineffective. CDC recommends it due to political pressure. Better to give society a placebo.
Posted on 7/13/20 at 8:50 am to longwayfromLA
quote:
Many, many studies have been done by now that show the effectiveness of masks.
So Dr. Fauci is to be discredited due to his flip flop stance?
And “studies” are freaking useless nowadays due to preferred outcomes taking priority.
Don’t read a study. Ask a surgeon if a cloth mask will prevent transmission of COVID 19. There is your study. Ask as many as you want to get the sample size for a new statistical study.
It’s hilarious that it’s claimed masks are so effective when the mayor and staff of one of the largest cities in North Mississippi has been a non stop crying vagina about masks.... has shut down city hall to outside business... and requires all employees to wear them at all times. Saw this morning that city hall is shut down because of a positive Corona test of an employee there.
So either masks are not as effective as sold.... or there are blithering hypocrites in the mask Nazis.
And again.... just for sake of credibility... when you folks are crying about masks and 6 feet of distance.... it would help if you deeply condemn the ongoing riots and baseless protests as much as a bar and restaurant. Just sayin.
This post was edited on 7/13/20 at 8:51 am
Posted on 7/13/20 at 10:55 am to frogglet
quote:
Wearing a mask properly is not difficult
For people with average and above average intelligence, sure - but the other half are dim enough to buy into the hysteria in the first place, so are you naive enough to believe they understand/follow medically accepted mask-wearing protocols? FFS the virtue signaling senate minority leader wore his below his nose in front of the press.
quote:
f this was the only study you'd have a point
It’s the study you linked in response to my post that went like this - “Well, point to one that’s worth a shite. Hopefully it’s not this one -” after Ihad read another study that was BS. Do you want another mulligan?
50 studies, no single one that Scientifically establishes that masks make a difference in mitigating COVID community spread, don’t collectively prove masks mitigate communitybspread.
quote:
Other studies have looked at cloth masks and found them to be effective as well, though not as effective as surgical masks. Perhaps try to look for one yourself, and see what you find. Being able to search for things yourself is a useful skill to learn. Good luck.
This is you running from your own argument.
You’re not the first on here that has run after arguing about all the science that exists about masks and COVID in the general public.
Posted on 7/13/20 at 11:48 am to IvoryBillMatt
quote:
Regarding mask-wearing, I STILL haven't seen ANY double blind studies that could be replicated. If anyone could point me to such a study, that would be much appreciated.
The problem is, there are a lot of subjects that you can't easily perform double-blind studies, or even single blind studies. In this case, how would you design a study for mask-wearing?
The strongest evidence we'll likely see are experimental ones, like the one we discussed earlier that measured viral load of exhaled breath both with and without a mask, and epidemiological ones that look at the statistics of mask vs non-mask wearing populations. My list contained both kinds of studies and both were pretty convincing.
Posted on 7/13/20 at 12:51 pm to frogglet
quote:
The strongest evidence we'll likely see are experimental ones, like the one we discussed earlier that measured viral load of exhaled breath both with and without a mask
If it's the one you (or someone else) directed me to a couple of days ago, it's a ridiculous "study" to use in the context of masking and COVID. Do you realize they used a wet wash cloth for the barrier?
quote:
and epidemiological ones that look at the statistics of mask vs non-mask wearing populations
That do not account for other mitigation measures. Seriously, this isn't that hard, and the fact there's nothing credible/logical out there should tell you all you need to know.
quote:
In this case, how would you design a study for mask-wearing?
It wouldn't be hard to design a test that legitimately measured/predicted the level of filtering of COVID by masks of various materials worn various ways. That nobody bothers to do this work tells you two things: 1) it's not about COVID or health, so why bother with real science to support a political argument, and 2) real science isn't convenient/easy to do when you start with your results and work backwards.
Posted on 7/13/20 at 12:54 pm to coonasswhodat
quote:
Data collecting, studies, and trends. It is a fluid situation.
It should not be. The article that pushed the time limits for cardboard, plastic, copper etc was flawed and WHO, CDC, MSM ran with it. the study was debunked. That was the same study that promoted the concept of airborne threat vs. droplet. Debunked.
It would not be hard to run unbiased studies to definitively answer these questions. They will not happen because of politics (from the left). Money and power, bottom line. We have it. They want it.
Posted on 7/13/20 at 1:17 pm to David_DJS
quote:
If it's the one you (or someone else) directed me to a couple of days ago, it's a ridiculous "study" to use in the context of masking and COVID. Do you realize they used a wet wash cloth for the barrier?
No it was the Nature article that studied surgical masks and coronavirus, earlier in this thread.
LINK
It gave pretty damn good evidence to show that surgical masks significantly reduce the amount of coronavirus in exhaled breath samples.
quote:
It wouldn't be hard to design a test that legitimately measured/predicted the level of filtering of COVID by masks of various materials worn various ways. That nobody bothers to do this work tells you two things: 1) it's not about COVID or health, so why bother with real science to support a political argument, and 2) real science isn't convenient/easy to do when you start with your results and work backwards.
There are studies that have looked at that. The real problem is that it isn't that simple. Showing that it reduces the amount of viral dna found in a sample doesn't really tell you whether it reduces infections.
There were studies out of Japan that looked at how the microdroplets are expelled and they showed that how the virus leaves is more complicated. It's almost a fluid dynamics problem at that point, and how the microdroplets behave becomes important. What they showed was that masks lowered the number of escaped droplets and kept them from traveling as far, which would reduce others' exposure to the virus. But how do you design an experiment to test that? You'd need to purposefully try to infect two groups of people. One as a control that is exposed to covid+ people who aren't wearing masks, and one group that is exposed to covid+ people who are wearing masks. You'd never get an IRB to sign off on something that purposefully tries to infect subjects with covid like that. Also you can't make that even single blind, unless you could come up with some sort of placebo mask, which doesn't seem possible.
This post was edited on 7/13/20 at 1:33 pm
Posted on 7/13/20 at 1:36 pm to frogglet
quote:
No it was the Nature article that studied surgical masks and coronavirus, earlier in this thread.
LINK
It gave pretty damn good evidence to show that surgical masks significantly reduce the amount of coronavirus in exhaled breath samples.
Is the working theory that Coronavirus can spread aerosolized?
Posted on 7/13/20 at 2:06 pm to David_DJS
quote:
Is the working theory that Coronavirus can spread aerosolized?
I haven't kept up with the latest but no, I don't think it is thought that it commonly spreads aerosolized. Rather it's thought to spread through these "microdroplets" in the 10 micrometers range. I believe the only time we're really worried about aerosolization is during certain aerosol generating procedures, like intubation and others here: LINK
Posted on 7/13/20 at 2:08 pm to da prophet
People like you are willfully ignorant, so this explanation will probably do no good, but here goes:
Masks are not being worn to prevent the wearer from getting infected. They are helping to prevent the wearer from infecting others. The mask allows particles through, but it prevents big particles from going through, and it prevents particles from projecting several feet away. These things SLOW (they do not prevent) virus transmission. By wearing masks and doing social distancing we hope to reduce the reproductive factor to less than 1. This chokes off the virus.
We measure the reproductive rate through new cases, hospitalizations, and deaths. Bars and other such places are being closed because the habituates of these places don't follow the rules.
Masks are not being worn to prevent the wearer from getting infected. They are helping to prevent the wearer from infecting others. The mask allows particles through, but it prevents big particles from going through, and it prevents particles from projecting several feet away. These things SLOW (they do not prevent) virus transmission. By wearing masks and doing social distancing we hope to reduce the reproductive factor to less than 1. This chokes off the virus.
We measure the reproductive rate through new cases, hospitalizations, and deaths. Bars and other such places are being closed because the habituates of these places don't follow the rules.
Posted on 7/13/20 at 2:11 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
All were seeing right now is panic and hysteria, to a not particularly dangerous virus, driven by an increase in testing,
Infections are climbing, not just testing rates. Hospitalizations and deaths are increasing.
Posted on 7/13/20 at 2:47 pm to Penrod
quote:
Infections are climbing, not just testing rates. Hospitalizations and deaths are increasing.
Which was understood would happen after we "flattened the curve." Right?
Posted on 7/13/20 at 8:25 pm to David_DJS
Correct. 
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