re: I don't grasp how families make it.

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No, but if it is taken to extremes, as it is trending now, then it can be a huge negative on our capitalist markets. The more people with buying power, the more efficiently our markets can function. I guess this is kind of off topic to this thread though.

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The wealth gap doesn't impact the number of people within buying power. And, clearly, a shite ton of Americans have buying power.

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Just looking at the percentage of america in the middle class now vs. 40 / 50 years ago, it is lower.

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This just isn't true.

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90+% of the jobs created in the last 10 years are part time / gig work without benefits.

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LOL. That's just made up and hilariously so.

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This is very true, but I don't think that it cancels out facts such as increasing wealth gap / decreasing middle class and that most jobs being created in today's economy are not jobs where someone can support a family / kids - which we should be encouraging.

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This is bullshite. Yes you can.

Back to the OP first

A) your sister got a college education to become a teacher. She knew what they were paid before she became a teacher. It's public record and can be found even by the dumbest of society. She made a choice to become a teacher. That is on her. She also chooses to not work summers, again on her.

She freely choose her oath

B) if your BIL is a plant bro and makes anything less than 50k it's because he has no education. He may have a trade skill but he isn't good at it if he is only making that much. So your BIL is not very smart and is the same kid that was prolly told throughout school that if he didn't start paying attention and working hard, he would have to work hard and be poor his whole life.

Again he made a decision to live that kind of life. Nobody made him not go to college or not try in high school. Nobody forced him to not be good at his trade. Nobody forced him to suck at negotiating his starting salary. That is on him.

Funny how people are told throughout adolescents that if they do not work hard they will grow up to be poor and have to work hard their whole life. Funny how those told to sit down, shut up, and pay attention or they would become ditch diggers or trashmen, refuse to listen and grow up to be those exact things.

Stop blaming society and look your BIL directly in the face and tell him he needs to do better. I have plenty of cousins that are the same way and when they start that must be nice shite around the holidays, I tell them like it is.

It's not societies fault, it's you BIL and sisters.

Now on to budget on a 80k combined salary-

A) they were fricking stupid to have 3 kids on that salary

B) following is pre-tax deductions monthly

-medical ins-$340
-401k - $250
-Dental- $20
-life- $40
- HSA -$250
Total-$920

taxes- fed/state- 9.51% or $634/month
SS- $372
Medicare-$87

Total take home is 69.81% or $4,654 per month.

Now let's break this down

House-$1000
Car notes- $800
Car ins-$200
Phones-$200
Utilities included internet and cable- $400
Groceries-$600
Gas-$250


So total left each month is $1200.

Sounds to me like your sister and BIL, even after making terrible life decisions, still have plenty to live off of. Sounds to me like they need to learn to live within their means and stick to a budget. Hell half the stuff above like phones, internet, cable etc could be cut in half if someone was struggling.



Now to address the idiots saying middle class is being squeezed compared to the 60s. No they fricking aren't. It's just that what we consider middle class isn't middle class anymore. 80k for a family with 3 kids is squarely middle class. Middle class makes up 51% of the population and it encompasses a household income range of about 50k to 150 for the family with 3 kids.

Difference between now and the 1960

- house size. Most then lived in houses below 1500sf with that size family. Now a days that's considered really small.

-cars- most families then had one car and it wasn't luxury like today. Wife would drop husband at work if need be.

- cooking at home, families then ate out once or twice a month total. There wasn't fast food daily etc. Families cooked 2-3 times a week and ate left overs the other days or they cooked 5-6 times a week and ate leftovers for lunch the next day.

- cell phones, internet, cable etc- most families then didn't have these things. For many families with 3 kids, that's $400 a month at a minimum.

- entertainment- people went to the movies once a month maybe and that was it for entertainment.

- travel- a vacation was a luxury. Might get one every other year if lucky and isn't wasn't extravagant. It was a trip to the shore and you ate sandwiches and cooked at night.

- no luxury items, no paying for school, no paying for sports, etc etc

If someone lives like that today, guess what...they would be fine on 80k with 3 kids. Hell I just gave an example where you can live better than that and still be fine.

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Why three kids with so litttle income?

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You know the answer to this...cause Jesus

Why would it be made up?

You ask about a budget when most Americans don't live on a budget. My point is that you already know that they don't.

As others have pointed out, they have too many kids for $80k income. With that income, you can have 2 kids about 6 years apart and still struggle.

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Move into a 1200 sq ft house like that family. Have only 1 car like that family. Do all your own repairs on that house and car. Grow a garden. Cook at home. Repair, don’t replace clothing and other goods so many toss today.

I know, it’s crazy right?

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Not really. When me and my wife had our fourth child we decided that she should be a stay at home mother. She was a teacher for 14 years. We live in a nice 2000+ sf home on 5 acres. I am nothing more than a plant baw. We don't have a garage filled with new cars, but me my wife and my oldest all have vehicles. I have a small garden that is more for a hobby because you are not getting enough to feed anyone out of it. Yes, I do do all my own home repairs if possible and we do cook most of the time. Single parent working households are great if you are willing to not be stupid with your money.

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If this story isn't completely made up, I bet your sister and her husband don't have an actual budget that they follow

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I ran a preliminary budget for 2020 (based on 2019 spending habits) and briefly discussed some changes with my wife. I printed it out for her to review. It's still sitting untouched on her night stand from 4 weeks ago. Lesson I've learned: Women don't like being told how to spend money!

(no message)

All because you haven't discussed it doesn't mean she didn't listen. She could be taking that as a notice from you for her to stop spending money.

My wife won't spend a cent without discussing it with me. I handle the money with little to no restrictions. She just doesn't like to handle it. So, she completely relies on me to let her know. Meanwhile, she literally let's me know what she's spending our money on. It worls for us.

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I ran a preliminary budget for 2020 (based on 2019 spending habits) and briefly discussed some changes with my wife. I printed it out for her to review. It's still sitting untouched on her night stand from 4 weeks ago. Lesson I've learned: Women don't like being told how to spend money!

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Stop being so passive aggressive and controlling.

Set up a night to talk about the budget.

During the budget talk...
1) Start by talking about your monthly income.
2) Establish needs and put down totals for those (roof over head, taxes, insurance, food, electricity, heat)
3) Talk about wants vs savings goals and weigh those trade offs
4) Mutually agree to a budget that allows for needs, wants and savings goals.

Then after the fact actually track how you are doing and reassess quarterly. Allow for some miscellaneous spending.

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Lesson I've learned: Women don't like being told how to spend money!

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Your wife isnt all women.