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Message
How can the government claim evidence when they have never examined DNC server?
Posted on 5/20/18 at 11:22 pm
Posted on 5/20/18 at 11:22 pm
quote:
The fons et origo of the counterintelligence investigation was the suspicion — which our intelligence agencies assure us is a fact — that the Democratic National Committee’s server was hacked by covert Russian operatives. Without this cyber-espionage attack, there would be no investigation. But how do we know it really happened? The Obama Justice Department never took custody of the server — no subpoena, no search warrant. The server was thus never subjected to analysis by the FBI’s renowned forensics lab, and its evidentiary integrity was never preserved for courtroom presentation to a jury.
How come? Well, you see, there was an ongoing election campaign, so the Obama Justice Department figured it would be a terrible imposition to pry into the Democrats’ communications. So, yes, the entire “Russia hacked the election” narrative the nation has endured for nearly two years hinges on the say-so of CrowdStrike, a private DNC contractor with significant financial ties to the Clinton campaign.
In Investigations 101, using foreign-intelligence authorities to spy on Americans is extraordinary, while taking custody of essential physical evidence is basic. By the way, the government’s failure to ensure the evidentiary integrity of the DNC server by taking possession of it and performing its own rigorous testing on it makes it practically impossible to prosecute anyone for “colluding” in Russia’s cyber-espionage. It’s tough to prove that anyone conspired in something unless you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the something actually happened the way you say it happened. To do that in a courtroom, you need evidence — a confident probability analysis by your intelligence agencies won’t do.
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Posted on 5/20/18 at 11:31 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
If those servers are ever credibly examined and it turns out Russia didn't hack them, my god can you imagine the metaphorical nuclear bomb that would go off in DC? 
It would mean the last three years are a complete sham.
It would mean the last three years are a complete sham.
Posted on 5/20/18 at 11:47 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Look, I don't believe the Russians hacked the DNC servers. But I was involved in cyber security of the election during this time for a state. And I know what Homeland and FBI came at us with to look for as evidence of an attempted breach. It was laughable to people in the business because it was simply specific IPs. Something a ten year old can spoof or anyone with a VPN. The problem with this whole thing is that the networks are being hit by these 'Russian' attacks every day. So you can't say they aren't doing it. Whoever the hell 'They' are are doing it daily. On everything on the internet. Got a thermostat connected to your home network? There's a 'russian' trying to drop a bot on it.
Examining the democrat's server won't make any difference. It's about what was coming and going on outside that server. So the question is, do they have logs of all that? I think they probably do. Can they see the packets that moved? Maybe. The server will show if they got malware on it. It might show a lot past that, but probably not but who knows. What I do know is this... The Russians are some of the best hackers in the world. But "The Russians" includes everyone from state sponsored folks working for Putin to guys working for the Oligarchs to script kiddies taking advantage of the FU to the world status of Russian laws about hacking foreigners. Which is why you get so many probing attempts being routed through known russian IPs. FYI, it wasn't just Russian IP's they were looking for. They were also French, and Israeli, and others.
Please don't believe these idiots when they're acting like they know the russians did this. They don't. There's more proof that they tried to make it look like that, take over the state election databases to 'save us' and thus make it easier to actually effect the election than there is that state sponsored Russian actors hit our elections.
Examining the democrat's server won't make any difference. It's about what was coming and going on outside that server. So the question is, do they have logs of all that? I think they probably do. Can they see the packets that moved? Maybe. The server will show if they got malware on it. It might show a lot past that, but probably not but who knows. What I do know is this... The Russians are some of the best hackers in the world. But "The Russians" includes everyone from state sponsored folks working for Putin to guys working for the Oligarchs to script kiddies taking advantage of the FU to the world status of Russian laws about hacking foreigners. Which is why you get so many probing attempts being routed through known russian IPs. FYI, it wasn't just Russian IP's they were looking for. They were also French, and Israeli, and others.
Please don't believe these idiots when they're acting like they know the russians did this. They don't. There's more proof that they tried to make it look like that, take over the state election databases to 'save us' and thus make it easier to actually effect the election than there is that state sponsored Russian actors hit our elections.
Posted on 5/21/18 at 1:28 am to Captain Rumbeard
But 37 intelligence agencies said that it was the Russians!
The good news is that the NSA has everything. When the time is right, if needed, the accurate details of who hacked the DNC will be released.
The good news is that the NSA has everything. When the time is right, if needed, the accurate details of who hacked the DNC will be released.
Posted on 5/21/18 at 1:34 am to Sentrius
quote:the last three years have been a sham. There really is no debate about that
It would mean the last three years are a complete sham.
Posted on 5/21/18 at 1:53 am to Captain Rumbeard
quote:
It was laughable to people in the business because it was simply specific IPs. Something a ten year old can spoof or anyone with a VPN.
Yep. Most of these talking heads have no clue about cyber security. Hackers have been spoofing IP's for decades. There's many ways to do it and the more skillful hackers will NOT get identified by merely tracing IP's. You'd have to get into a more thorough analysis of the actual code/exploits used, their signatures, etc. And even then it can be near impossible because there's lots of exploits/trojans/viruses out there on the Internet for free that anyone can use.
Now, what the NSA can do I don't know. It's plausible with their massive insight into the Internet (they scoop all traffic on the Internet) that they have the ability to trace things the FBI cannot. But if they have done such analysis in this case, no one will confirm it. So we are left with Clapper and Brennan's "word" that they have "classified evidence." They may have such evidence, but until they show it to a court, it is moot anyway. McCarthy makes a good point: is their "evidence" enough to convince a jury? And would they even risk revealing state secrets (methods and tradecraft) for such a trial? Is putting Roger Stone in jail for 5 years worth losing part of our SIGINT capability?
I am agnostic on the Russian hacking. They may have done it or they may not. I definitely know they are capable of it because they are probably the #1 country in the world for cyber crime right now.
Posted on 5/21/18 at 7:16 am to Captain Rumbeard
quote:
Look, I don't believe the Russians hacked the DNC servers. But I was involved in cyber security of the election during this time for a state. And I know what Homeland and FBI came at us with to look for as evidence of an attempted breach. It was laughable to people in the business because it was simply specific IPs. Something a ten year old can spoof or anyone with a VPN. The problem with this whole thing is that the networks are being hit by these 'Russian' attacks every day. So you can't say they aren't doing it. Whoever the hell 'They' are are doing it daily. On everything on the internet. Got a thermostat connected to your home network? There's a 'russian' trying to drop a bot on it.
How do you explain the Russian who forgot to turn off his VPN before posting hacked emails which are known Russian intel IP addresses?
Posted on 5/21/18 at 7:19 am to AUstar
quote:
Now, what the NSA can do I don't know. It's plausible with their massive insight into the Internet (they scoop all traffic on the Internet) that they have the ability to trace things the FBI cannot. But if they have done such analysis in this case, no one will confirm it. So we are left with Clapper and Brennan's "word" that they have "classified evidence." They may have such evidence, but until they show it to a court, it is moot anyway. McCarthy makes a good point: is their "evidence" enough to convince a jury? And would they even risk revealing state secrets (methods and tradecraft) for such a trial? Is putting Roger Stone in jail for 5 years worth losing part of our SIGINT capability?
The Republican led Senate Intel just confirmed what the intel agencies reported about who hacked the DNC and why. So no you are just left with Clapper and Brennan's "word".
Posted on 5/21/18 at 7:34 am to Sentrius
quote:
If those servers are ever credibly examined
Too late for that. The chain of custody has been violated so the evidence is no longer credible in a court of law. One of the most common arguments by any defense is that police did not manage the chain of custody properly and that the evidence is therefore tainted.
Posted on 5/21/18 at 7:35 am to Captain Rumbeard
quote:
Look, I don't believe the Russians hacked the DNC servers.
You seem to have much more knowledge on this subject than I or several others here do. My question is are these "Russians" that are attempting to breech servers government agents or are they simply hackers trying to make a name for themselves?
My earliest virus software had a tracer of some kind on it and I detected several hacking attempts and usually they were from the orient and I just assumed it was a kid.
Posted on 5/21/18 at 7:37 am to Sentrius
quote:My bet is they were hacked by multiple parties.
and it turns out Russia didn't hack them
Posted on 5/21/18 at 8:12 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
Google it. Find the answer.
Posted on 5/21/18 at 8:23 am to Captain Rumbeard
quote:
There's more proof that they tried to make it look like that, take over the state election databases to 'save us' and thus make it easier to actually effect the election
I do expect that one day some FedGov agency that will hack into state election computers in order to "protect us" from any future Outsider Reformer from gaining the office of POTUS. They will change the votes if the wrong guy wins.
Posted on 5/21/18 at 8:31 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:Rexcatur has stuck to Crowdstrike did the work for the Government, nothing to see here mantra for months.
How can the government claim evidence when they have never examined DNC server?
Posted on 8/11/18 at 1:33 am to tigerinDC09
quote:
How do you explain the Russian who forgot to turn off his VPN before posting hacked emails which are known Russian intel IP addresses?
If you think the guys working at the top of the Russian Hacker food chain forgot something that fundamental you have zero clue what you're talking about. The only reason for exposing an IP address would be because you chose to do so. The "YOU" is the part you need to question here.
Posted on 8/11/18 at 1:39 am to Barneyrb
What we saw was normal script kiddie traffic from those IPs trying to exploit old vulnerabilities.
Happens every day and has happened every day since someone figured out you could hack a network.
The only unusual thing was 20 plus HS/FBI people showing up saying they were taking over security for 'Critical Infrastructure' reasons when there was never anything even close to a breach. Not that that would warrant putting all our state election databases into one basket so they're just that much more easily hacked. Luckily they were told to politely go frick themselves.
Happens every day and has happened every day since someone figured out you could hack a network.
The only unusual thing was 20 plus HS/FBI people showing up saying they were taking over security for 'Critical Infrastructure' reasons when there was never anything even close to a breach. Not that that would warrant putting all our state election databases into one basket so they're just that much more easily hacked. Luckily they were told to politely go frick themselves.
This post was edited on 8/11/18 at 1:41 am
Posted on 8/11/18 at 1:56 am to Captain Rumbeard
I love it when a guy with a Security+ certificate and maybe a CSSP starts chatting shite like they actually know what happened in an individual case where they have zero access to ANY technical information.
The 60 plus heehaws on here who learned about the internet when Donald Trump started tweeting are very impressed with your little rant. This computer scientist however finds your conclusions laughably unsourced.
The 60 plus heehaws on here who learned about the internet when Donald Trump started tweeting are very impressed with your little rant. This computer scientist however finds your conclusions laughably unsourced.
Posted on 8/11/18 at 2:03 am to Tigerdev
LOL if you think I've got the spaghetti certs, you're wrong. I was the guy that put the whole thing together for those guys and I talked to every state in the union about it in September/October. So I know more than just one state's version of this. But I know that one's version verbatim.
I won't be trying to source it for you for pretty obvious reasons to anyone that was actually involved in these kinds of contracts. You apparently weren't. Good luck with your IT career. That's not what we were doing. Our clients went far beyond a state and we were strictly active network security when we weren't doing incident response.
I won't be trying to source it for you for pretty obvious reasons to anyone that was actually involved in these kinds of contracts. You apparently weren't. Good luck with your IT career. That's not what we were doing. Our clients went far beyond a state and we were strictly active network security when we weren't doing incident response.
This post was edited on 8/11/18 at 2:09 am
Posted on 8/11/18 at 2:06 am to Captain Rumbeard
Posted on 8/11/18 at 2:08 am to Captain Rumbeard
Now you play the discretion card after stating your direct involvement in this on a public college football website? If you are who you claim to be then you have violated the ethics of your position to score upvotes on a political subforum of a college football website. Congrats man.
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