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ibldprplgld
USA Fan
Nola
Member since Feb 2008
12980 posts

re: Homosexual Recruitmement Is Becoming A Thing
quote:

If this were the case then there would be female victims of Sandusky. There weren't because he is a Homosexual. He was around plenty of female adolescent kids.



Were there girls at the camp? Seems like it was a boys only camp which proves the opportunity was there for boys, not girls.


PickupAutist
Member since Sep 2018
1435 posts

re: Homosexual Recruitmement Is Becoming A Thing
The history of the DSM's treatment of homosexuality as a disorder is that it was included in the original manual, replaced by "sexual orientation disturbance" in the DSM-II, that was replaced with "ego-dystonic sexual orientation" in the DSM-III, and the whole concept was tossed out the window in the DSM-IV. Thus has political pressure defined the concept of deviant behavior out of existence. It's literally okay simply because they say it is, and you'll find that exact claim parroted mindlessly by gay advocates. It's not in the DSM ergo it's not mental illness.


ibldprplgld
USA Fan
Nola
Member since Feb 2008
12980 posts

re: Homosexual Recruitmement Is Becoming A Thing
quote:

I'm sure they do. The mental health professions are more of an art than a science and leaves a lot to interpretation. Definitions of mental illness have changed a lot over the years without substantive reasons to support those changes except for what can be described as political or cultural inputs or pressures.



Well, specifically regarding the link that was proven to exist between orientation and child abuse by multiple studies, those studies have been found to have serious sampling issues. In this case, it's not about what's PC or vogue at the moment, it's about correcting a serious defect in a study with improved methodology.

I could ask one person on the streets on NOLA what his opinion of POTUS is. If he says frick Trump, and I run with it saying 100% of NOLA residents oppose Trump, would you believe me? No. Would you prefer I get a good mix of respondents (sample size) that represent the full makeup of the city (as best I can)? Probably so.

That's basically what happened with those studies from the 80s and 90s.

quote:

You said that these men prefer effeminate boys. Why is that? Why wouldn't they choose just any child if it's only about power? Why do their looks have anything to do with it if it has nothing to do with attraction? Are they worried about a butch 6 year old boy putting up more of a fight than a feminine 6 year old boy?


It's a good question, and I'm sure you could try and dig through the current research for why that is, but you can't say absence of contrary proof is proof that my opinion is correct.


ibldprplgld
USA Fan
Nola
Member since Feb 2008
12980 posts

re: Homosexual Recruitmement Is Becoming A Thing
quote:

I am in no way defending the Christian parents behavior. I also think 'Conversion Therapy' is disgusting. Just was pointing out the whole picture that yes it could be worse.



Sure it could be, and if we were in the ME, it would be germane, but it's not. There are still parents and kids who would rather see their families torn apart over this rather than show a little compassion and love to one another. Both sides hurt in those instances and there are no winners.


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31
IdahoTiger
South Alabama Fan
Mobile, AL
Member since Dec 2007
1818 posts

re: Homosexual Recruitmement Is Becoming A Thing
This is not a thing, probably why you didn’t provide a link. Idiot.


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11
DarthTiger
Auburn Fan
Member since Sep 2005
1590 posts

re: Homosexual Recruitmement Is Becoming A Thing
quote:

Seems like it was a boys only camp which proves the opportunity was there for boys, not girls.


And who set it up to be that way?

Sandusky.


genro
Alabama Fan
Member since Nov 2011
60541 posts

re: Homosexual Recruitmement Is Becoming A Thing
quote:

was there any time you questioned your attraction to women for men, or has your attraction to women remained at a constant?
I believe this is a question built on a false premise and it's a trap question. All people, male or female, gay or straight would prefer to look at an attractive person over an ugly one. This is not sexual, it's simply aesthetics. Sexual arousal is something else. For me, these days it's mostly pheremonal and comes from my wife. She can just look at me a certain way. I get super horny when she is ovulating/on her period. The dog does too. Meanwhile a nasty stripper on a pole doesn't do much for me.

But a nasty stripper used to work. There were many times during adolescence when sexual arousal could come from just about anywhere. An ankle. A freaking hole in the ground. Or just, bored in church and there we go. Seemingly no reason at all. Had this been associated and reinforced with a certain aesthetic, both externally and in my mind, it could have been conditioned into this vague thing we call "sexual attraction"

This sort of explanation could show us why even among purely straight men, there are wildly different types and proclivities. Straight men don't even agree with each other on what is sexually attractive. And I think you could understand a conditioning argument for say, a foot fetish. So why not anything else?
This post was edited on 10/11 at 11:52 am


ibldprplgld
USA Fan
Nola
Member since Feb 2008
12980 posts

re: Homosexual Recruitmement Is Becoming A Thing
quote:

The history of the DSM's treatment of homosexuality as a disorder is that it was included in the original manual, replaced by "sexual orientation disturbance" in the DSM-II, that was replaced with "ego-dystonic sexual orientation" in the DSM-III, and the whole concept was tossed out the window in the DSM-IV. Thus has political pressure defined the concept of deviant behavior out of existence. It's literally okay simply because they say it is, and you'll find that exact claim parroted mindlessly by gay advocates. It's not in the DSM ergo it's not mental illness.



People need to understand what the DSM is. You might find point E enlightening.

quote:

Table 1 DSM-IV Definition of Mental Disorder Features

A a clinically significant behavioral or psychological syndrome or pattern that occurs in an individual

B is associated with present distress (e.g., a painful symptom) or disability (i.e., impairment in one or more important areas of functioning) or with a significantly increased risk of suffering death, pain, disability, or an important loss of freedom

C must not be merely an expectable and culturally sanctioned response to a particular event, for example, the death of a loved one

D a manifestation of a behavioral, psychological, or biological dysfunction in the individual

E neither deviant behavior (e.g., political, religious, or sexual) nor conflicts that are primarily between the individual and society are mental disorders unless the deviance or conflict is a symptom of a dysfunction in the individual Other Considerations

F no definition adequately specifies precise boundaries for the concept of “mental disorder”

G the concept of mental disorder (like many other concepts in medicine and science) lacks a consistent operational definition that covers all situations


anc
Member since Nov 2012
11481 posts

re: Homosexual Recruitmement Is Becoming A Thing
quote:

I, for example, volunteer in Nola through one of the non-profits. We have an open door policy to teens who may be gay and are struggling. It's a mentor setup and NO IT'S NOT SEXUAL IN ANY WAY. About 6 teens have my number and can contact me whenever they need to. And believe me, some of them have contacted me before with serious family problems. I like to think I'm helping make a difference and showing them they have worth in life regardless of their orientation.


Weird.


The Maj
Alabama Fan
Member since Sep 2016
6114 posts

re: Homosexual Recruitmement Is Becoming A Thing
quote:

Christian parents with homosexual children should treat them as any other unrepentant sinner and show love towards them while reminding them of their need for salvation in Christ and the expectation that they should repent of their sins.


I agree with you here but I know two sets of parents that have sons that are gay. They tried to be accepting, as they could but they also asked their children to accept or respect their views. They also had heterosexual children. Both gay kids in both instances kept pushing the boundaries and not respecting their parents wishes within their own houses to the point that both families had to tell their gay sons to never return again...

So, who was at fault here?


ibldprplgld
USA Fan
Nola
Member since Feb 2008
12980 posts

re: Homosexual Recruitmement Is Becoming A Thing
quote:

And who set it up to be that way?

Sandusky.


Exactly my point.

Likely because it was an easier opportunity to setup an all boys football camp than an all females football camp. If a male adult setup an all female football camp do you honestly think that wouldn't have attracted some attention? It was socially acceptable to have a boys camp so no one questioned his motives. They would have if he ran an all girls camp, and he wouldn't have been allowed in the girls locker area making it difficult to commit the abuse.

No one questions a male coach in a boys locker room. They would a male in a female locker room.


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13
FooManChoo
Georgia Fan
Member since Dec 2012
24595 posts

re: Homosexual Recruitmement Is Becoming A Thing
quote:

Well, specifically regarding the link that was proven to exist between orientation and child abuse by multiple studies, those studies have been found to have serious sampling issues. In this case, it's not about what's PC or vogue at the moment, it's about correcting a serious defect in a study with improved methodology.

I could ask one person on the streets on NOLA what his opinion of POTUS is. If he says frick Trump, and I run with it saying 100% of NOLA residents oppose Trump, would you believe me? No. Would you prefer I get a good mix of respondents (sample size) that represent the full makeup of the city (as best I can)? Probably so.

That's basically what happened with those studies from the 80s and 90s.
So are you saying that newer studies were performed with more accurate sampling that contradicted previously studies, or were the previous studies simply determined too unreliable, resulting in nullifying their conclusions?

quote:

It's a good question, and I'm sure you could try and dig through the current research for why that is, but you can't say absence of contrary proof is proof that my opinion is correct.
It's not my burden to prove you wrong if you're making a claim. It's your burden to prove that you're right.

In this specific example, the claim is that men (heterosexual, seemingly) are not just fine with having sexual relations with males, but that they are actually looking for males that look more like females than others. If that is going to be claimed, there has to be a reason why that is the case. If it's based on appearance, it would lend credence to sexual desire over power.


FooManChoo
Georgia Fan
Member since Dec 2012
24595 posts

re: Homosexual Recruitmement Is Becoming A Thing
quote:

I agree with you here but I know two sets of parents that have sons that are gay. They tried to be accepting, as they could but they also asked their children to accept or respect their views. They also had heterosexual children. Both gay kids in both instances kept pushing the boundaries and not respecting their parents wishes within their own houses to the point that both families had to tell their gay sons to never return again...

So, who was at fault here?
In that specific case, I would say they both were at fault, with the gay children receiving the most blame.

It sounds like the parents made every effort to show love towards their children but the children rebelled until it became too much to bear. I would disagree with the notion that the children should be permanently kicked out, though. I'm personally fine with removing them from the house (assuming they were of an age to be emancipated) until the children repented and showed a desire to come back in peace.


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PickupAutist
Member since Sep 2018
1435 posts

re: Homosexual Recruitmement Is Becoming A Thing
quote:

You might find point E enlightening.


You might find it enlightening that E is a later additions as well.

The definition of a disorder was changed so that it is entirely harm based and the harm defined by reference to the individual. Despite including "or harm to others", conflict with prevailing social mores isn't accepted as a definition of harm, even though that would be a reasonable definition (perhaps most social behavior is intended to reinforce cooperation and suppress deviance). Harm is clearly inadequate to define all mental illness, but this point is mooted by the fact that the definition is inconsistently applied anyway.

The problem with using harm as a basis for defining mental disorder is that it is symptom-based and is not tethered to any idea of normal development or function. Unlike physical deviance, such as a club foot, mental deviance and its deleterious effects can be masked. If you took the concept to its natural extension, sociopathy could not be defined as a mental disorder because the sociopath doesn't mind it and in most of his interactions there isn't obvious harm to others. You have the same problems with narcissism. Yet we know, despite the absence of outward harm, that these are mental illnesses, because we can observe the personality deficits, the retarded emotional life, and so on.

Of course you can argue that eventually these lead to harm, but then you have a problem with homosexuality, particularly in the context of mass society where homosexual male behavior is responsible for so much disease spreading. Here we have a very clear case of harm exacerbated by sexual deviance, but it's still not good enough--hundreds of thousands of people dying is not a demonstration of harm by the (perverse) standards of anti-science gay activists.


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10
ibldprplgld
USA Fan
Nola
Member since Feb 2008
12980 posts

re: Homosexual Recruitmement Is Becoming A Thing
quote:

I believe this is a question built on a false premise and it's a trap question. All people, male or female, gay or straight would prefer to look at an attractive person over an ugly one. This is not sexual, it's simply aesthetics. Sexual arousal is something else. For me, these days it's mostly pheremonal and comes from my wife. She can just look at me a certain way. I get super horny when she is ovulating/on her period. The dog does too. Meanwhile a nasty stripper on a pole doesn't do much for me.


It's not a trap question.

It's a simple question that has nothing to do with attractiveness. Just because I find a female beautiful or attractive doesn't mean I'm sexually aroused by her.

I'll clarify the question:

Assuming equal levels of attractiveness, have you ever been attracted to or aroused by a man? Have you ever questioned your arousal to an attractive female for an attractive male? Ever. At all.


ibldprplgld
USA Fan
Nola
Member since Feb 2008
12980 posts

re: Homosexual Recruitmement Is Becoming A Thing
quote:

So are you saying that newer studies were performed with more accurate sampling that contradicted previously studies, or were the previous studies simply determined too unreliable, resulting in nullifying their conclusions?


Both.

quote:

It's not my burden to prove you wrong if you're making a claim. It's your burden to prove that you're right.

In this specific example, the claim is that men (heterosexual, seemingly) are not just fine with having sexual relations with males, but that they are actually looking for males that look more like females than others. If that is going to be claimed, there has to be a reason why that is the case. If it's based on appearance, it would lend credence to sexual desire over power.

I've linked two very well-cited articles earlier in the thread to support my position. You're talking about smell test. If you just believe something in your gut to be true, who am I to rain on your parade. But I have provided enough "proof" from professionals that should at least incline you to examine what your gut tells you.


genro
Alabama Fan
Member since Nov 2011
60541 posts

re: Homosexual Recruitmement Is Becoming A Thing
quote:

Assuming equal levels of attractiveness, have you ever been attracted to or aroused by a man? 
No. But had a person who otherwise would've been straight been put into a certain situation and environment at the right time of their life, it would be entirely possible. Straight men go into prison and come out gay. I'm sure your explanation is that they were just gay all along and were repressing. I disagree
quote:

Have you ever questioned your arousal to an attractive female for an attractive male?
Arousal is a tangible, observable physiological occurence. It just happens. Sometimes for no reason at all. How can you question it?


ibldprplgld
USA Fan
Nola
Member since Feb 2008
12980 posts

re: Homosexual Recruitmement Is Becoming A Thing
quote:

I agree with you here but I know two sets of parents that have sons that are gay. They tried to be accepting, as they could but they also asked their children to accept or respect their views. They also had heterosexual children. Both gay kids in both instances kept pushing the boundaries and not respecting their parents wishes within their own houses to the point that both families had to tell their gay sons to never return again...

So, who was at fault here?



If that's exactly how it happened, I would fault the kids more. But you're also getting the story from the parents. I'd be curious to know the kid's opinions. I have one friend in particular who doesn't go home much because every time he does his mother leaves her Bible on his bed and suggests he reconsider his life choices. He doesn't dare bring his husband home anymore because his mother never acknowledged him, not as his then boyfriend, but as a human who was in the house. He views this as an affront, she probably views it as being loving and supportive.


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10
el Gaucho
Southern Fan
bawcomville
Member since Dec 2010
40305 posts
 Online 

re: Homosexual Recruitmement Is Becoming A Thing
What’s so weird about a gay guy volunteering at a gay recruitment center?


ibldprplgld
USA Fan
Nola
Member since Feb 2008
12980 posts

re: Homosexual Recruitmement Is Becoming A Thing
quote:

No. But had a person who otherwise would've been straight been put into a certain situation and environment at the right time of their life, it would be entirely possible. Straight men go into prison and come out gay. I'm sure your explanation is that they were just gay all along and were repressing. I disagree



You are correct that in that situation, some straight men choose to have sex with men while in prison and it is situational. I disagree with you here though: they aren't actually gay. They are choosing to frick a guy over celibacy, but if given the option, they'd choose a female.

They are still attracted to women, but the desire to nut causes them to deal with it in ways they otherwise wouldn't. A male attracted to women is straight even if he chooses under severely restricted circumstance to act otherwise. He hasn't changed his orientation, just acted in a way that isn't consistent with it. That's a bad example honestly.

quote:

Straight men go into prison and come out gay.


Can you provide a link to this?

quote:

Arousal is a tangible, observable physiological occurence. It just happens. Sometimes for no reason at all. How can you question it?



I didn't question it. I was getting at the root cause of it. For you, it's been consistently and without exception the result of females (when it's a person). For me, it's been consistently and without exception the result of males (when it's a person). I mean come on, we've all been teens and a change in wind direction caused unwanted wood completely without anticipation.

That's what makes you straight and me gay. And my point is, we've both always known it. Chicks do it for you, and dudes do it for me.


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