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Message
re: HLI: Update/resurrection
Posted on 3/8/17 at 8:44 am to ThinePreparedAni
Posted on 3/8/17 at 8:44 am to ThinePreparedAni
I would love to hear some sort of C-Span debate on this Space Elevator stuff.
1
Posted on 3/8/17 at 12:23 pm to RCDfan1950
Thine/Darkomantis, is the goal for people like us to begin spreading the orbital space elevator idea to others in our circle?
I've been talking to someone about it, and his major hangup is twofold: that either it will be abused by whoever controls it, or if it is feasible, why hasn't some power hungry dictator type created it to abuse it.
My response is that a dictator exists to control people. As it exists today, the controlled have no hope of a radically better life, and therefore go along with the control. Once you introduce hope of something way better, the controlled rebel. So a dictatorship is fine with the status quo power over the controlled, and actually fears introducing the hope of something way better bc then that power will likely be taken away from the dictator.
In American, we are controlled too but we're ok with it bc we're fed small technological advances, we see 3-5% gdp growth, etc and think we're doing great, and we keep trudging along. If the populace as a whole was given the concrete hope of something along the lines of a space elevator that could increase GDP by 20-30%, we'd realize that our government is either completely inept or has been lying to us, or both. This all ties in to the emperor has no clothes analogy.
Thinking along the lines of a space elevator, we have a vast energy source in our earths core. The temperature could be used to drive steam turbines for power generation. Space elevator is obviously better because it forms a jumping off spot for space, but the geothermal energy is something I've thought of in the past.
I've been talking to someone about it, and his major hangup is twofold: that either it will be abused by whoever controls it, or if it is feasible, why hasn't some power hungry dictator type created it to abuse it.
My response is that a dictator exists to control people. As it exists today, the controlled have no hope of a radically better life, and therefore go along with the control. Once you introduce hope of something way better, the controlled rebel. So a dictatorship is fine with the status quo power over the controlled, and actually fears introducing the hope of something way better bc then that power will likely be taken away from the dictator.
In American, we are controlled too but we're ok with it bc we're fed small technological advances, we see 3-5% gdp growth, etc and think we're doing great, and we keep trudging along. If the populace as a whole was given the concrete hope of something along the lines of a space elevator that could increase GDP by 20-30%, we'd realize that our government is either completely inept or has been lying to us, or both. This all ties in to the emperor has no clothes analogy.
Thinking along the lines of a space elevator, we have a vast energy source in our earths core. The temperature could be used to drive steam turbines for power generation. Space elevator is obviously better because it forms a jumping off spot for space, but the geothermal energy is something I've thought of in the past.
This post was edited on 3/8/17 at 12:27 pm
Posted on 3/8/17 at 1:14 pm to 90proofprofessional
Same reason for people believing in religions. All about Faith because there is nothing to back it up. You must be open minded.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 1:51 pm to Darkomantis
Holy Christ....... People will believe anything.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 2:01 pm to berrycajun
quote:
I read somewhere somewhere that Pence was "compromised"
quote:
Was that HLI that said that
I believe he mentioned Pence, or the Pence family, being a part of the pedi ring stuff.... I could be wrong
Posted on 3/8/17 at 2:27 pm to Cromulent
I've recently had a thought and its ok the tip of my tongue so I probably won't explain it well but I'll give it a shot in case it leads to more discussion.
Why does evil exist? evil exists bc "it's the easy way out." It's often the easier of two choices. So if you introduce a technology along the lines of a space elevator that removes so many of our hard choices, you've removed a significant amount of the evil in the world. Choose the more difficult path for it is more just/moral and leads to rooting out of evil.
Why does evil exist? evil exists bc "it's the easy way out." It's often the easier of two choices. So if you introduce a technology along the lines of a space elevator that removes so many of our hard choices, you've removed a significant amount of the evil in the world. Choose the more difficult path for it is more just/moral and leads to rooting out of evil.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 2:28 pm to ThinePreparedAni
I've read a lot of this, and it is fascinating. I'd like to keep an open mind, but I'm skeptical. A few questions:
How would the space elevator help society that much? OK so we get a cheap energy source. But there is still an economy, there will still be classes of people who make more money than others. Still will be rich, poor, and middle. Poverty would still exist on a relative scale.
On the destroyed civilization: How was there no technological carryover? Nothing existed in the mountains away from the effects of the flood? I have trouble buying there would be a total "reset" especially if the civilization were so great and advanced.
Regarding deep state: How has no one leaked everything before? I'd think someone with all this knowledge, at some point in time, would have pulled an Andy Dufrense. Escape, GTFO to somewhere off the grid, while publishing all the info with proof on the way out. I get there's fear of retaliation on family, but someone along the way has to have had both zero liabilities and a moral compass strong enough to give it up.
How would the space elevator help society that much? OK so we get a cheap energy source. But there is still an economy, there will still be classes of people who make more money than others. Still will be rich, poor, and middle. Poverty would still exist on a relative scale.
On the destroyed civilization: How was there no technological carryover? Nothing existed in the mountains away from the effects of the flood? I have trouble buying there would be a total "reset" especially if the civilization were so great and advanced.
Regarding deep state: How has no one leaked everything before? I'd think someone with all this knowledge, at some point in time, would have pulled an Andy Dufrense. Escape, GTFO to somewhere off the grid, while publishing all the info with proof on the way out. I get there's fear of retaliation on family, but someone along the way has to have had both zero liabilities and a moral compass strong enough to give it up.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 2:29 pm to elleshoo9
quote:
Why does evil exist? evil exists bc "it's the easy way out." It's often the easier of two choices. So if you introduce a technology along the lines of a space elevator that removes so many of our hard choices, you've removed a significant amount of the evil in the world. Choose the more difficult path for it is more just/moral and leads to rooting out of evil.
Good post. I think the HLI guy actually said something along these lines when speaking of the space elevator. You seem to be on the right track
Posted on 3/8/17 at 2:30 pm to Sid in Lakeshore
quote:
Holy Christ....... People will believe anything.
ISWYDT
ETA: And I did note the Trump avatar.
This post was edited on 3/8/17 at 2:32 pm
Posted on 3/8/17 at 2:47 pm to elleshoo9
But how does it remove so many of our hard choices?
Posted on 3/8/17 at 3:03 pm to LSUJuice
The idea is that between with the almost infinite supply of clean power that would come from, truly solar, solar energy combined with the almost unlimited amount of resources that could much more easily be harvested from space, it would usher society into a close to post scarcity economy.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 3:13 pm to TigerFanatic99
quote:
usher society into a close to post scarcity economy
wouldn't that make the "easy way out" all the easier for most people?
Posted on 3/8/17 at 3:21 pm to LSUfanNkaty
quote:
I believe he mentioned Pence, or the Pence family, being a part of the pedi ring stuff.... I could be wrong
Alex Jones mentioned his best friend was a pedo...fwiw.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 3:26 pm to 90proofprofessional
How so? If everything is cheaper, there is much less motivation to do evil - to cheat, steal, lie your way ahead in life. The social strata become way more equal bc there is much less wealth disparity.
Obviously there will still be jobs that need to be done. But the space elevator concept launches us into a realm of unimaginable possibilities technologically due to basically unlimited clean energy. who's to say that the jump to space elevator technology does not spur the kick we need for AI to do those jobs?
Compare it to the capital produced from and the possibilities made available by great infrastructure projects of the past century or two: railroads, Erie and Panama Canal, telephone, Internet, all huge investments that paid back way more to humanity in general than the investment put in
Obviously there will still be jobs that need to be done. But the space elevator concept launches us into a realm of unimaginable possibilities technologically due to basically unlimited clean energy. who's to say that the jump to space elevator technology does not spur the kick we need for AI to do those jobs?
Compare it to the capital produced from and the possibilities made available by great infrastructure projects of the past century or two: railroads, Erie and Panama Canal, telephone, Internet, all huge investments that paid back way more to humanity in general than the investment put in
Posted on 3/8/17 at 3:32 pm to 90proofprofessional
Much of it depends upon how you view/define evil. If you're saying evil is serial killers, rapists, child molesters...it doesn't help that.
But you seem to imply that "evil" is those who resort to theft, fraud, brawn/bullying/military advantage, or greater intellect to hoard a greater share of scarce resources for themselves/their family.
By moving towards a post-scarcity economy, you are reducing the motivation to hoard resources (aka greed). So it helps to destroy greed but not necessarily that desire to do wrong just for sake of doing wrong (aka evil)
But you seem to imply that "evil" is those who resort to theft, fraud, brawn/bullying/military advantage, or greater intellect to hoard a greater share of scarce resources for themselves/their family.
By moving towards a post-scarcity economy, you are reducing the motivation to hoard resources (aka greed). So it helps to destroy greed but not necessarily that desire to do wrong just for sake of doing wrong (aka evil)
Posted on 3/8/17 at 3:32 pm to elleshoo9
quote:
If everything is cheaper, there is much less motivation to do evil - to cheat, steal, lie your way ahead in life.
And much less motivation to do anything useful as well.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 3:38 pm to 90proofprofessional
quote:
And much less motivation to do anything useful as well.
The motivation will always be there for certain people to develop the next advancement for humanity.
Eta This is obvious by the existence of this thread/idea. Some people are complacent with the status quo even though it may be imperfect. Some people always want more
This post was edited on 3/8/17 at 3:41 pm
Posted on 3/8/17 at 3:43 pm to elleshoo9
quote:
Some people are complacent with the status quo even though it may be imperfect
Well we just defined evil as an easy way out, and only I took issue. I'm just pointing out how a post-scarcity economy, which could support an endless army of ne'er-do-wells, would likely vastly increase the prevalence of 'evil', by that definition.
This post was edited on 3/8/17 at 3:44 pm
Posted on 3/8/17 at 3:50 pm to TigerFanatic99
quote:
The idea is that between with the almost infinite supply of clean powe
I'm pretty sure that Nikola Tesla received financing to build a tower with an almost infinite supply of clean power and when the financiers found out they couldn't charge for it they shut it down.
If it is true that should tell everyone all they need to know about why we can't have nice things
Posted on 3/8/17 at 4:01 pm to 90proofprofessional
Other than evil doers for evils sake, which I'll admit won't be fixed by this, why do people do evil things like steel, cheat, etc? I'd purpose that it is to get ahead in life or it's a survival mode.
In a post scarcity world, I'd imagine people would be able to live off a government provided basic income with many of the luxuries and ammenties of the upper middle class or better. I'd imagine this would take away much of the temptation to cheat your way ahead in life. But people would also have the option to take up jobs that still exist if they wanted to get ahead a little more, or even just for pleasure or to keep occupied.
With the introduction of this wealth of energy, you also have to opportunity to expose the lies, distractions, etc that have been fed to people for ages to keep them in constant turmoil with each other. This also roots out the existence of evil massively in my opinion
The concept of diminishing evil I had was just a thought. I could be completely wrong.
In a post scarcity world, I'd imagine people would be able to live off a government provided basic income with many of the luxuries and ammenties of the upper middle class or better. I'd imagine this would take away much of the temptation to cheat your way ahead in life. But people would also have the option to take up jobs that still exist if they wanted to get ahead a little more, or even just for pleasure or to keep occupied.
With the introduction of this wealth of energy, you also have to opportunity to expose the lies, distractions, etc that have been fed to people for ages to keep them in constant turmoil with each other. This also roots out the existence of evil massively in my opinion
The concept of diminishing evil I had was just a thought. I could be completely wrong.
This post was edited on 3/8/17 at 4:05 pm
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