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First Pentecostal Church of Holly Springs, MS arson follow up - extraordinary

Posted on 5/24/20 at 12:20 pm
Posted by LSUTigersVCURams
Member since Jul 2014
21940 posts
Posted on 5/24/20 at 12:20 pm
The U.S. Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals issued a decision on an underlying court case. Judge Don Willett wrote a powerful and timely concurrence:

quote:

DON R. WILLETT, Circuit Judge, concurring.

The First Pentecostal Church of Holly Springs was burned to the ground earlier this week. Graffiti spray-painted in the church parking lot sneered, “Bet you Stay home Now YOU HYPOKRITS.”

The City mentions the church burning in its latest brief, but in a manner less commendable than condemnable. One might expect a city to express sympathy or outrage (or both) when a neighborhood house of worship is set ablaze. One would be mistaken. Rather than condemn the crime’s depravity, the City seized advantage, insisting that the Church’s First Amendment claim necessarily went up in smoke when the church did: “the Church was destroyed from an arson fire . . . making the permanent injunction claim moot.”

This argument is shameful.

When the parishioners of First Pentecostal Church leave their homes on Sundays, they are not going to church; they are the church. The church is not the building. When the New Testament speaks of the church, it never refers to brick-and-mortar places where people gather, but to flesh-and-blood people who gather together.1 Think people, not steeple. I concur in the court’s grant of injunctive relief. Singling out houses of worship—and only houses of worship, it seems—cannot possibly be squared with the First Amendment.

1. “Ekklesia,” the Greek word for church, means the gathered ones, an assembly of the faithful. See Ekklesia, The Oxford Dictionary of Byzantium (Alexander P. Kashdan ed., 1991) (“personification of the church”).
This post was edited on 5/24/20 at 2:43 pm
Posted by Gaspergou202
Metairie, LA
Member since Jun 2016
13494 posts
Posted on 5/24/20 at 12:24 pm to
Racist!
Only Black Churches Matter!
Posted by Buckeye Jeaux
Member since May 2018
17756 posts
Posted on 5/24/20 at 12:41 pm to
quote:

DON R. WILLETT, Circuit Judge, concurring.


Thanks Judge Willet.
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
41644 posts
Posted on 5/24/20 at 1:16 pm to
We need to show love to these people who hate Christ and His people. We need to pray for their salvation and that God would show them mercy.
Posted by PsychTiger
Member since Jul 2004
98718 posts
Posted on 5/24/20 at 1:19 pm to
How were these judges able to write an opinion without hiring an attorney to represent them?
Posted by TigerOnTheMountain
Higher Elevation
Member since Oct 2014
41773 posts
Posted on 5/24/20 at 1:19 pm to
Forget that.

We need a crusade.
Posted by chalmetteowl
Chalmette
Member since Jan 2008
47471 posts
Posted on 5/24/20 at 1:22 pm to
quote:

When the parishioners of First Pentecostal Church leave their homes on Sundays, they are not going to church; they are the church. The church is not the building. When the New Testament speaks of the church, it never refers to brick-and-mortar places where people gather, but to flesh-and-blood people who gather together.1 Think people, not steeple. I concur in the court’s grant of injunctive relief. Singling out houses of worship—and only houses of worship, it seems—cannot possibly be squared with the First Amendment.


No one’s saying they can’t have online services via technology
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
111496 posts
Posted on 5/24/20 at 1:24 pm to
quote:

No one’s saying they can’t have online services via technology


Churches should/could choose that option. Not because the state says it their only option.

You can’t justify the shutdown of churches in 80% of states based on the prevalence of the disease. Maybe 90%.
Posted by scottfruget
Member since Nov 2010
3392 posts
Posted on 5/24/20 at 1:24 pm to
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/13/21 at 6:51 pm
Posted by ABearsFanNMS
Formerly of tLandmass now in Texas
Member since Oct 2014
17443 posts
Posted on 5/24/20 at 1:29 pm to
quote:

No one’s saying they can’t have online services via technology


The judge just said “GFY” you progressive POS. Think people not steeples! The First Amendment stands!
Posted by arcalades
USA
Member since Feb 2014
19276 posts
Posted on 5/24/20 at 2:00 pm to
quote:

No one’s saying they can’t have online services via technology


We are to assemble together. We were/are told to assemble together and there is an underlying reason we are told to assemble together. That underlying reason is not fulfilled by having "online services via technology", genius.

If you are going to be completely ignorant, do it silently and invisibly.
Posted by chalmetteowl
Chalmette
Member since Jan 2008
47471 posts
Posted on 5/24/20 at 2:06 pm to
quote:

We are to assemble together. We were/are told to assemble together and there is an underlying reason we are told to assemble together.
unfortunately it hasn’t been safe to do so. I’m not sure why churches think they’re different from other venues that have had to close for the time being
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
41644 posts
Posted on 5/24/20 at 2:21 pm to
quote:

I’m not sure why churches think they’re different from other venues that have had to close for the time being
You don’t understand why Christians who are commanded by God to worship Him together would be different from people associating in other contexts not commanded by God?

For most congregations, remote services are OK and not a conviction, but for others, there are spiritual needs that can be met through in-person fellowship that cannot be adequately simulated remotely.

Also, it doesn’t look good when there are “non-essential” venues that are opening up throughout the country (like bars) while spiritually-essential places of worship are not able to open, even in limited fashion, at the same time.

Posted by PrinceVegeta
Fourchon Beach
Member since Nov 2014
474 posts
Posted on 5/24/20 at 2:26 pm to
quote:

Forget that.

We need a crusade.


NO NO! We must be peaceful! My fellow Christians we must welcome non-believers with open arms and pacifism and kiss their feet. Diversity is our strength.
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
111496 posts
Posted on 5/24/20 at 2:29 pm to
quote:

unfortunately it hasn’t been safe to do so.


Where?

quote:

I’m not sure why churches think they’re different from other venues that have had to close for the time being


Probably because there’s no “freedom of Kohl’s” in the constitution. Secondly, they shouldn’t have been shut either.
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
111496 posts
Posted on 5/24/20 at 2:31 pm to
quote:

For most congregations, remote services are OK and not a conviction, but for others, there are spiritual needs that can be met through in-person fellowship that cannot be adequately simulated remotely.


Whether it’s ok for them or not, the point of religious services is to gather together.
Posted by Apollyon
Member since Dec 2019
2124 posts
Posted on 5/24/20 at 2:44 pm to
quote:

We need to show love to these people who hate Christ and His people. We need to pray for their salvation and that God would show them mercy.


HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA. No.

We need to grow some fricking balls.



Posted by chalmetteowl
Chalmette
Member since Jan 2008
47471 posts
Posted on 5/24/20 at 2:48 pm to
quote:

Whether it’s ok for them or not, the point of religious services is to gather together.
don’t shoot me for this question, but when you go to church, are you there to listen to the preacher, sing hymns, and reflect? Under what circumstance do you absolutely need the people next to you there?
Posted by Parmen
Member since Apr 2016
18317 posts
Posted on 5/24/20 at 3:00 pm to
Any filth demon that burns down a church needs to be summarily dealt with.
Posted by jimmy the leg
Member since Aug 2007
34002 posts
Posted on 5/24/20 at 3:23 pm to
quote:

No one’s saying they can’t have online services via technology


To play Devil’s advocates, pun intended,
what if they were Amish? Does the 1st Amendment not apply to people without the ability to go online for services without conflicting with their moral obligation?
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