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Message
re: Baylor University Survey On Religion: 'Almost No Atheists Voted For Trump'
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:13 am to FooManChoo
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:13 am to FooManChoo
quote:
an agnostic person doesn't want to discuss a topic about faith because it holds no weight in their eyes and is thus an irrelevant talking point.
And again. You miss every single point. I'm not sure why you are so insistent that my uncommitted stance is evidence that I have no interest at all. I'm undecided, not uninterested. Why is that so hard for you to get?
1
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:14 am to northshorebamaman
Bro, you know that was not directed at you. That was at BamaAtl. I laugh the same way at my fellow Christians who do the same but in the opposite direction. There are absolutely forms of evidence that disagree with our belief system. If there were not then there would be no need for faith. You have to weigh the evidence provided and make your decision. Based on my observations and experiences, I choose Christ.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:15 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
A large majority of the people in this world do not believe it.
Wow. Large majority you say? Can you provide the statistics of the population who believe vs. non belief?
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:15 am to DisplacedBuckeye
Just pointing out a key element of systematic theology. God makes no attempt to "prove" His existence to His creation.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:15 am to Wolfhound45
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:18 am to FooManChoo
quote:
Faith is not good enough for the agnostic and that's been my point all along; an agnostic person doesn't want to discuss a topic about faith because it holds no weight in their eyes and is thus an irrelevant talking point.
No, this is not correct. You assign more value to your faith than others do. That's fine. Just don't expect it to carry any weight in the discussion.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:23 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:Yes, it is.
No, this is not correct.
Not because I really believe that. I just want to contradict you
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:23 am to Lg
quote:
Wow. Large majority you say? Can you provide the statistics of the population who believe vs. non belief?
Somewhere around 30% of the global population claims to be Christian. 70% is a large majority.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:24 am to Wolfhound45
You have to keep a convincing point in your back pocket to do that.
Let's hear it.
Let's hear it.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:29 am to DisplacedBuckeye
Well, from a Christian standpoint, there are two theological evidences offered in the Bible;
1 - Creation
2 - Conscience
(references provided upon request)
The position of God is if a man rejects these two evidences he is a fool.
That is about it.
I find these threads fascinating from the Christian standpoint because we attempt to "prove" the existence of God which cannot be "proven" in the truest sense. It does require an element of faith with the evidences provided (1 and 2 above being the baseline). I have no issue acknowledging these things. Not sure why my brethren are so adamant that they have to enter into a "proof" argument because (quite frankly) it cannot be made. Nor can the argument against the existence of God be categorically made either. It is absolute and utter madness.
But it has kept me mildly entertained.
1 - Creation
2 - Conscience
(references provided upon request)
The position of God is if a man rejects these two evidences he is a fool.
That is about it.
I find these threads fascinating from the Christian standpoint because we attempt to "prove" the existence of God which cannot be "proven" in the truest sense. It does require an element of faith with the evidences provided (1 and 2 above being the baseline). I have no issue acknowledging these things. Not sure why my brethren are so adamant that they have to enter into a "proof" argument because (quite frankly) it cannot be made. Nor can the argument against the existence of God be categorically made either. It is absolute and utter madness.
But it has kept me mildly entertained.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:32 am to Wolfhound45
quote:
I find these threads fascinating from the Christian standpoint because we attempt to "prove" the existence of God which cannot be "proven" in the truest sense. It does require an element of faith with the evidences provided (1 and 2 above being the baseline). I have no issue acknowledging these things. Not sure why my brethren are so adamant that they have to enter into a "proof" argument because (quite frankly) it cannot be made. Nor can the argument against the existence of God be categorically made either. It is absolute and utter madness.
You can't be contradictory and then outright agree with me. I give you a 2/10, and only because we're friends.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:33 am to Wolfhound45
quote:
Well, from a Christian standpoint, there are two theological evidences offered in the Bible; 1 - Creation 2 - Conscience
Neither of those are "evidence".
Creation? What? Is this an "I exist, therefore God" evidence?
Conscience? Hell, we don't even know what conscience is or if it really even exists other than as a biological process.
A can't be evidence of B when we don't even know what the frick A is or if A exists.
quote:
I find these threads fascinating from the Christian standpoint because we attempt to "prove" the existence of God which cannot be "proven" in the truest sense.
My ONLY problem with religious people is when they claim to "KNOW" something the rest of us don't.
I really don't care what they choose to believe because that choice has no effect upon me.
About the only time I even discuss such things is on message boards just as thought exercise.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:33 am to DisplacedBuckeye
(non-alcoholic beer - I have to keep up appearances)
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:35 am to ShortyRob
quote:Actually, both of them are evidence. They are just not evidence that is considered relevant to you. But they are evidence.
Neither of those are "evidence".
Bottom line, he asked me to articulate the systematic theology version (in a roundabout way) and I did. Too easy.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:37 am to northshorebamaman
quote:I probably won't cite anything new that you've never heard before. Unlike what you said to the other poster, I didn't say I can prove God exists, only that there is evidence for the existence of God. All evidence must be interpreted and weighed by each individual. Rejection of evidence does not mean there is no evidence, and likewise rejecting the weight of evidence does not negate the existence of evidence. What non-believers mean is that there is no evidence for the existence of God that holds weight with the person who doesn't believe. With that said, some evidences for the existence of the Christian God (the one described in the Bible) are as follows:
Go on.
- Order in the universe
- Universal/immaterial laws of nature/logic
- Complexity in creation
- Information in our DNA
- An intrinsic sense of morality in humans
- An intrinsic sense of justice and injustice in humans
- An intrinsic sense of guilt (related to morality) in humans
- Philosophical arguments such as causality and the existence of consciousness
This post was edited on 9/21/17 at 1:27 pm
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:45 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Somewhere around 30% of the global population claims to be Christian.
Does one have to be a Christian to believe in the Bible? Seems to me that I've heard Muslims and Jews believe in the Bible.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:48 am to Wolfhound45
quote:
Actually, both of them are evidence
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:49 am to Blue Velvet
quote:Look who they let out of lock up
Blue Velvet
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:51 am to FooManChoo
quote:
What is your definition of "evidence" in this context
Evidence.
quote:
There is evidence for the Christian God
There is not. You have absolutely nothing that you can point to as evidence for the Christian God. The Bible is not evidence, it's a book of fairy tales.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:53 am to BamaAtl
That defies logic and science. There was a beginning.
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