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Andy McCarthy new article today: FBI’s Russia probe was formally opened on false pretenses
Posted on 5/6/19 at 9:34 pm
Posted on 5/6/19 at 9:34 pm
LINK
Article is really long, but the basic gist is that the FBI had absolutely zero predicate to open a full-fledged investigation into papadoupolos. There was ZERO evidence that the DNC hacked emails being leaked were in anyway connected to Papadoupolos.
What Downer claimed papadouplos told him at a london bar did not amount to ANYTHING to assume a connection to dnc leaks.
Key parts from article:
Downer’s assumption was specious, for at least four reasons:
Article is really long, but the basic gist is that the FBI had absolutely zero predicate to open a full-fledged investigation into papadoupolos. There was ZERO evidence that the DNC hacked emails being leaked were in anyway connected to Papadoupolos.
What Downer claimed papadouplos told him at a london bar did not amount to ANYTHING to assume a connection to dnc leaks.
Key parts from article:
quote:
On July 22, 2016, the eve of the Democratic National Convention and two months after Downer met with Papadopoulos, WikiLeaks began disseminating to the press the hacked DNC emails. From this fact, Downer drew the unfounded inference that the hacked emails must have been what Papadopoulos was talking about when he said Russia had damaging information about Clinton.
Downer’s assumption was specious, for at least four reasons:
quote:
1) In speaking with Downer, Papadopoulos never mentioned emails.
quote:
2) Papadopoulos did not tell Downer that Russia was planning to publish damaging information about Clinton through an intermediary
quote:
3) Papadopoulos says the emails he claims Mifsud referred to were not the DNC emails; they were Clinton’s own emails.
quote:
4) The DNC emails did not damage Clinton in any material way, and it would have been ridiculous to imagine that they would.
quote:
Downer’s flawed assumption that Papadopoulos must have been referring to the hacked DNC emails was then inflated into a Trump–Russia conspiracy theory by Clinton partisans in the Obama administration — first at the State Department, and then in the Justice Department, the FBI, and the broader intelligence community — all agencies in which animus against Donald Trump ran deep.
quote:
To recap, though Downer initially dismissed his conversation with Papadopoulos as trite gossip, he suddenly decided their discussion was significant after the hacked DNC emails were published. In late July, he personally went to the American embassy in London to report the two-month-old conversation to Elizabeth Dibble, the chargé d’affaires (i.e., the deputy chief of mission, who was running the embassy because Matthew Barzun, the U.S. ambassador and heavyweight Democratic-party fundraiser, was on vacation).
9
Posted on 5/6/19 at 9:38 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Y'all should really take some time out to read the full article.
This makes me angry.
This is almost worse than the steele dossier, imo.
There was ZERO indication that papadouplos was involved with the leaks of the dnc emails, yet POS Downer remembered papadouplos gossiping about vague "dirt", and then created this elaborate connection that never existed. FBI bought into it.
This makes me angry.
This is almost worse than the steele dossier, imo.
There was ZERO indication that papadouplos was involved with the leaks of the dnc emails, yet POS Downer remembered papadouplos gossiping about vague "dirt", and then created this elaborate connection that never existed. FBI bought into it.
Posted on 5/6/19 at 9:39 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
It was a hoax from the beginning
and shows how dangerous the federal Leviathan has become.
and shows how dangerous the federal Leviathan has become.
This post was edited on 5/6/19 at 9:43 pm
Posted on 5/6/19 at 9:42 pm to TrueTiger
They needed a hook, they created a hook.
Seriously if this ends in any other way than people hanging, this country is fricked.
Seriously if this ends in any other way than people hanging, this country is fricked.
This post was edited on 5/6/19 at 9:42 pm
Posted on 5/6/19 at 9:50 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Read that this morning. He dismantles the narrative which was created by Obama’s admin and continued by Mueller.
Should be required reading.
Should be required reading.
Posted on 5/6/19 at 9:51 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Our government is truly broken
And I bet 90% of liberals support this
And I bet 90% of liberals support this
Posted on 5/6/19 at 9:54 pm to NIH
Russia had plenty of dirt on Hillary without ever opening a single one of her emails
Posted on 5/6/19 at 9:55 pm to Meauxjeaux
quote:
Seriously if this ends in any other way than people hanging, this country is fricked.
This needs to be repeated adnauseum
Posted on 5/6/19 at 9:58 pm to NIH
I am not even kidding when I say this:
Let's say it's April of 2016 and the FBI decides to snoop around on the poliboard.
4chan and twitter are rife with rumors that russia has hillary's emails.
a poliboard poster, say cptbengal, kct, or jjdoc, starts a thread claiming Russia has the goods. They link a gateway pundit article.
The FBI takes it as evidence that the poster is working with russia to interfere in our election, and opens an investigation against that poster.
Let's say it's April of 2016 and the FBI decides to snoop around on the poliboard.
4chan and twitter are rife with rumors that russia has hillary's emails.
a poliboard poster, say cptbengal, kct, or jjdoc, starts a thread claiming Russia has the goods. They link a gateway pundit article.
The FBI takes it as evidence that the poster is working with russia to interfere in our election, and opens an investigation against that poster.
Posted on 5/6/19 at 11:10 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Downer drew the unfounded inference that the leaked emails must have been what Papadopoulos was talking about when he said Seth Rich had damaging information about Clinton.
Posted on 5/7/19 at 12:36 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:Well this is purely his opinion about the political ramifications, and frankly it’s pretty asinine. Those leaks helped solidify the “rigged” narrative, which was posted many times on this very board. Furthermore, it caused a lot of resentment in the D party, and this obscure candidate named Jill Stein gained a lot of traction as a proxy candidate for Bernie supporters. The votes for Stein alone were more than the margin to have flipped the election.
The DNC emails did not damage Clinton in any material way, and it would have been ridiculous to imagine that they would.
quote:This ignores that Assange himself, the month before the leak said that they were going to leak some emails “in relation to” Hilary. It was assumed that they were HER emails at the time, but the following month, the next thing he leaked, right before she officially secured the nomination, we’re emails related to Hillary Clinton.
On July 22, 2016, the eve of the Democratic National Convention and two months after Downer met with Papadopoulos, WikiLeaks began disseminating to the press the hacked DNC emails. From this fact, Downer drew the unfounded inference that the hacked emails must have been what Papadopoulos was talking about when he said Russia had damaging information about Clinton.
WikiLeaks to publish more Hillary Clinton emails - Julian Assange
quote:And right after they were released, it wasn’t just Downer, or anyone who even knew about that conversation, who connected the DNC Emails with an attempt to damage Hillary.
We have upcoming leaks in relation to Hillary Clinton … We have emails pending publication, that is correct,” Assange said.He did not specify when or how many emails would be published.
Assange, Avowed Foe of Clinton, Timed Email Release for Democratic Convention
quote:So it’s ridicule for McCarthy to argue that Downer suddenly connecting Pap’s information that the Russian’s were going to release information to damage, immediately following the DNC leaks was flawed, when the same thing was already widely speculated in the mainstream even without having Pap’s information.
Six weeks before the anti-secrecy organization WikiLeaks published an archive of hacked Democratic National Committee emails ahead of the Democratic convention, the organization’s founder, Julian Assange, foreshadowed the release — and made it clear that he hoped to harm Hillary Clinton’s chances of winning the presidency.
And in fact, the US intelligence’s concluded that the Russians hacked the DNC (and Podesta) and the information was leaked to harm Hillary. Exactly what Pap reported to Downer. So why wouldn’t it be logical to assume that the information from Pap was related to the thing Pap correctly reported?
This is a really poor article by McCarthy. Besides the convenient benefit of hindsight, he offers his unsupported opinion about something that is counter to reality, and worse fails to include directly relevant and widely available information that is counter to his arguments. Either he’s so incompetent (don’t believe that) that he couldn’t even do very basic research, or he’s lying by omission.
This post was edited on 5/7/19 at 12:40 am
Posted on 5/7/19 at 12:44 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:Bought into it?
FBI bought into it.
There is virtually no chance the FBI and/or CIA did not set the entire thing up.
Posted on 5/7/19 at 12:56 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:This is just ridiculous, since Pap actually worked for the campaign and is nothing like a random internet poster.
a poliboard poster, say cptbengal, kct, or jjdoc, starts a thread claiming Russia has the goods. They link a gateway pundit article.
The FBI takes it as evidence that the poster is working with russia to interfere in our election, and opens an investigation against that poster.
But let’s look at the timeline:
1. April 2016: Russians hack the DNC database.
2. May 6, 2016: Pap reported that the Russians had damaging information.
3. June 12, 2016: Assange states in interview: “We have upcoming leaks in relation to Hillary Clinton … We have emails pending publication, that is correct.”
4. July 22, 2016: Assange releases the DNC emails that were hacked by the Russians, right before Hillary was officially nominated as the D candidate.
5. July 31, 2016: The FBI launches their investigation.
So given that events and the timeline, I don’t know how one could conclude that an investigation was completely unwarranted, let alone akin the message board fodder.
And the results of that investigation, in hindsight years later after a broad and comprehensive investigation overall, is irrelevant to the validity of the justification at the time it was started.
Posted on 5/7/19 at 1:01 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
And in fact, the US intelligence’s concluded that the Russians hacked the DNC (and Podesta) and the information was leaked to harm Hillary. Exactly what Pap reported to Downer.
The only thing Papadouplos told downer was that russia has "dirt" on hillary. He NEVER told downer they were in the form of emails, he NEVER told downer they were planning to release them through a third party, he NEVER told downer it was DNC emails.
If they wanted to, they could have simply interviewed PapaD in august of 2016 when the probe opened. Instead, lacking a criminal predicate, they took the extraordinary and downright egregious step of opening a counterintelligence campaign against somebody of which no evidence of criminality existed.
Posted on 5/7/19 at 1:03 am to buckeye_vol
quote:There was never a defensive briefing.
I don’t know how one could conclude that an investigation was completely unwarranted
Not one . . . EVER!
That fact my friend goes well beyond "unwarranted".
Posted on 5/7/19 at 1:12 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Andy McCarthy
I heard he and Bernie were connected.
Posted on 5/7/19 at 1:18 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:So weeks after the Russians got dirt on Hillary, unbeknownst to anyone, Pap reports the Russians have dirty on Hillary. And when the Russians release that dirt, they were supposed to ignore that Pap reported previously unknown information right after they “got the dirt” and well before they released it because he wasn’t specific about the dirt and how it was going to be released (which may not have been decided at that time anyways)?
The only thing Papadouplos told downer was that russia has "dirt" on hillary. He NEVER told downer they were in the form of emails, he NEVER told downer they were planning to release them through a third party, he NEVER told downer it was DNC emails.
quote:A crime was committed when the emails were stolen.
Instead, lacking a criminal predicate
quote:When someone who shouldn’t have any knowledge whatsoever about the details of a crime, but somehow had that knowledge, it seems pretty logical to investigate how he gained that knowledge.
they took the extraordinary and downright egregious step of opening a counterintelligence campaign against somebody of which no evidence of criminality existed.
quote:They could have done that, but like any number of investigations where they think there a more powerful person or group behind a crime, they chose to not reveal themselves and allow them to hide in response.
If they wanted to, they could have simply interviewed PapaD in august of 2016 when the probe opened.
This post was edited on 5/7/19 at 1:24 am
Posted on 5/7/19 at 1:24 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
I don’t know how one could conclude that an investigation was completely unwarranted
Nobody is saying a counterintelligence probe should not have been initiated against Russia.
What we are concerned about is that the FBI opened a counterintelligence investigation against Papadouplos without ANY
A) incriminating evidence
B) evidence implicating the Trump campaign in Russian espionage
quote:
Under federal law, to establish that an American is acting as an agent of a foreign power, the government must show that the American is purposefully engaging in clandestine activities on behalf of a foreign power, and that it is probable that these activities violate federal criminal law.
LINK
If the FBI had evidence implicating Papadouplos as a foreign agent as federal law calls for, they would not have needed to open a counter-intelligence investigation, they would have opened a criminal investigation.
The scandal is that the FBI, lacking the incriminating evidence needed to justify opening a criminal investigation of the Trump campaign, decided to open a counterintelligence investigation.
complete with undercover informants using false job titles and aliases, offering papadouplos money/projects to set up meetings with him, surveillance, etc...in the absence of any hard, real evidence he was working with russia.
It should concern ALL AMERICANS that merely saying "russia has dirt" on clinton is enough to get you put under surveillance. That's all the FBI knew when Downer went to them. They didn't know about Mifsud or anything. All the FBI knew was that papadouplos, at a london bar, mentioned something about russia having dirt on clinton. Never said it was emails, never said they were using wikileaks for it, never said it involved hacking. At the time of him saying it, media speculation was rife with the idea that russia may have dirty laundry.
They didn't even bother to interview him first!
They took the, imo, extraordinary step of using our potent counterintelligence powers against him.
Posted on 5/7/19 at 1:30 am to buckeye_vol
quote:The only way the USIC could have come to this conclusion would be after a thorough forensic examination of the DNC server. Did they conduct such an examination?
And in fact, the US intelligence’s concluded that the Russians hacked the DNC (and Podesta)
quote:From whom did Pap say he got intel that the Russians had dirt on HRC?
So weeks after the Russians got dirt on Hillary, unbeknownst to anyone, Pap reports the Russians have dirty on Hillary
Posted on 5/7/19 at 1:37 am to FearlessFreep
quote:He didn't.
From whom did Pap say he got intel that the Russians had dirt on HRC?
All he told Downer was that the "russians had dirt".
The FBI, without even interviewing papadouplos to hear what he had to say, took downer at his word about a brief bar conversation that took place MONTHS before. No actual documentary evidence was presented to the FBI, just the retelling of a conversation. What if Papadopolos was just bullshitting, or had read an article earlier that day that russia had dirt on Hillary and he took it as gospel, and tried to act all cool and edgy by telling it to Downer? Those are all plausible explanations.
Here is what we KNOW for a fact, though:
Papadouplos was not involved in russian hacking, nor did he actually receive any emails from mifsud, nor is there ANY indication that Mifsud had any inside knowledge.
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