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Message
re: Aereo: How can anyone argue this is anything other than theft?
Posted on 4/23/14 at 3:14 pm to WaveHog
Posted on 4/23/14 at 3:14 pm to WaveHog
quote:
Over 80% have cable or satellite. The value of OTA might be overstated a bit in this thread.
200,000 to 600,000 people dropping Cable / Satellite a quarter
and also - I've been at the table for a Nelson rating showdown... the Networks don't even fully tout the Nelson numbers, everyone "assumes" a bit of a boost from OTA tv watchers, that are completely "off the map" and will never be a part of "surveys"
1
Posted on 4/23/14 at 3:26 pm to WaveHog
quote:I get my CBS, FOX, NBC and ABC all OTA because the OTA HD is a much higher bandwidth signal than the compressed signal I get from Direct TV at the lake and FiosTV at home.
Fewer than 10% of household use antenna. Over 80% have cable or satellite. The value of OTA might be overstated a bit in this thread.
Part of the reason so few people use antenna is because some over-zealous HOA's write in convenants against it. Mine did. They sent me a demand letter after I put one up ten feet above the top roofline. I threatened then with a federal lawsuit. They hired an attorney. They quickly apologized when the attorney told them the clause was invalid and they were breaking a federal law. I just happened to know the law because I worked at Zenith Electronics in the development of the 8VSB Terrestrial Broadcast Signal that we developed as part of what was called 'The Grand Alliance'.
HDTV was originally going to be an analog signal, and it was beautiful!! The colors were pure. The depth and realism unbelievable. Then Bill Gates got involved and he hired a bunch of lobbyists to throw money around and held up HDTV for six years until a digital broadcast standard was agreed upon.
Anyway, the Telecommunications Act of 1997 guaranteed you can use an antenna for local channels at up to twelve feet above the top roofline of your home and that you can use a satellite dish, and HOA's cannot tell you where to place them. Most HOAs still try to tell you, and it's only informed consumers that know to tell them to shove it up their nosy, bitching asses!
Posted on 4/23/14 at 3:28 pm to moneyg
quote:
What you are really asking is what makes Aereo different than cable companies. And, others are asking what makes Aereo different than an antenna company.
Even Aereo's lawyers admit this distinction is fuzzy
quote:
I don’t pretend that there is a bright line between providing a service and providing access to equipment,” he said. “It’s an authentically hard call as to where to draw the line. So I don’t have a good answer for you.”
quote:
You seem to have a pretty strong opinion. Where did you draw the line?
It's as I asked before: why should cable providers have to pay for programming while Aereo doesn't? Their entire business model (with the multiple antennas) is essentially based on a loophole.
quote:
Mr. Frederick said Aereo was not covered by the provision involving public performance. Because it assigns individual antennas to every viewer, he said, Aereo’s Internet streams are not public performances under the copyright law. That means, he added, that it has no obligation to pay retransmission fees.
I mean: really? The only reason to do this is to get around the copyright law.
quote:
A divided three-judge panel of the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit in New York last year ruled for Aereo. In dissent, Judge Denny Chin wrote that the service was “a Rube Goldberg-like contrivance, over-engineered in an effort to avoid the reach of the Copyright Act and to take advantage of a perceived loophole in the law.”
quote:
Some justices said they found the service suspiciously complicated. “Is there any reason you did it other than not to violate the copyright laws?” Justice Antonin Scalia asked Mr. Frederick.
quote:
“Your technological model,” Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. told Aereo’s lawyer, “is based solely on circumventing legal prohibitions that you don’t want to comply with.”
Posted on 4/23/14 at 3:36 pm to a want
quote:
“Your technological model,” Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. told Aereo’s lawyer, “is based solely on circumventing legal prohibitions that you don’t want to comply with.”
I mean they aren't the first company/govt/person to do this. If they invalidate because they found a loop hole then a lot of people are fricked. Hell Chief Roberts basically validated the health care law on a loop hole.
Posted on 4/23/14 at 3:38 pm to BaddestAndvari
Don't put these guys out of business. One of the few cool jobs left in the US.
Makes me want to spit.
Makes me want to spit.
Posted on 4/23/14 at 3:42 pm to son of arlo
Watched about 3 seconds - had to turn off.
Posted on 4/23/14 at 3:54 pm to a want
quote:
Why should cable companies, etc. have to pay networks for content, but Aereo shouldn't?
Because they are selling subscriptions and using their own equipment to push the network feed thru a different medium. It's a totally different business model.
The equipment Aereo is selling the customer is doing exactly what any other antenna a customer would by is doing, transferring the free feed to YOUR viewing device.
Is it illegal for Joes TV shop to give you a FREE 20 ft tall antenna with a new tv purchase if you agree to pay him $5/mnth to maintain the antenna and it's functionality?
And if it's some kind of money loser for networks, why don't they just stop transmission of the free signal? Why is that?
I'll tell you why, they make a shite ton of money from the viewers #s they sell to advertisers, off of that free signal.
Tell me again how Aereo setup is hurting their business?
This post was edited on 4/23/14 at 5:13 pm
Posted on 4/23/14 at 3:56 pm to a want
quote:
Watched about 3 seconds
One of my life's achievements is putting my toes at the edge of Mockingbird Gap in NM and watching my urine evaporate before it hit the ground. Don't get into a pissing contest with me unless you can whiz at least 800 feet.
Posted on 4/23/14 at 5:12 pm to GeeOH
Cable companies will win on the sheer fact that it's a rebroadcast of their programming.
Posted on 4/23/14 at 5:14 pm to son of arlo
quote:You're living the dream!
One of my life's achievements is putting my toes at the edge of Mockingbird Gap in NM and watching my urine evaporate before it hit the ground. Don't get into a pissing contest with me unless you can whiz at least 800 feet
Posted on 4/23/14 at 5:14 pm to Scrowe
quote:
Cable companies will win on the sheer fact that it's a rebroadcast of their programming.
Posted on 4/23/14 at 5:16 pm to Scrowe
quote:
Cable companies will win on the sheer fact that it's a rebroadcast of their programming.
You've got this all figured out, don't you?
Posted on 4/24/14 at 10:10 am to Scrowe
quote:
Cable companies will win on the sheer fact that it's a rebroadcast of their programming.
Are you retarded? Hypothermia? Starvation? Dehydration?
That simply wasn't a lucid comment! Lol
Seriously, Wtf are you talking about?
Posted on 4/24/14 at 10:57 am to BaddestAndvari
quote:Actually Dish settled with several networks out of court over Hopper.
they have said the same damn thing about the hopper dvr.... :crickets: they will probably not do a damn thing
Posted on 4/24/14 at 11:00 am to mchias1
quote:Exactly. People should just produce content for free.
Why should cable companies pay networks??
Posted on 4/24/14 at 11:24 am to GeeOH
quote:
Seriously, Wtf are you talking about?
Sorry maybe I should have said networks instead of companies. Anyhow they are in a battle against them in the courts (obviously because we are discussing it) and Aereo is looking to be on the losing side of the argument early on in the eyes of the Supreme Court. They do not have permission to retransmit these signals, that is what I meant. So they are looking to lose this battle on the fact that they are retransmitting without consent. Didn't think I needed a paragraph to state that.
This post was edited on 4/24/14 at 1:35 pm
Posted on 4/24/14 at 3:50 pm to Scrowe
I don't think they are re-transmitting simply by having the customer own the antenna devices and the devices receiving the transmission from their antenna.
Aereos is making itself out to be a retail antenna company with a service contract on the equipment and dvr type fees.
For them to lose, the SCOTUS would likely find they were actually doing more, or in theory still the owners of the antenna...then it would be a retransmission.
Anything is possible with the lobby power the size of networks and all involved, but the business model as it is presented would not lose.
Aereos is making itself out to be a retail antenna company with a service contract on the equipment and dvr type fees.
For them to lose, the SCOTUS would likely find they were actually doing more, or in theory still the owners of the antenna...then it would be a retransmission.
Anything is possible with the lobby power the size of networks and all involved, but the business model as it is presented would not lose.
Posted on 4/24/14 at 3:57 pm to GeeOH
quote:
but the business model as it is presented would not lose.
I guess we'll see but here are some of the questions/comments from the S.C. regarding this business model.
quote:
Mr. Frederick said the service merely allowed subscribers to rent equipment to make their own individual copies of over-the-air television programs. That did not impress Chief Justice Roberts.
“That’s just saying your copy is different from my copy,” he said. “But that’s the reason we call them copies, because they’re the same.”
quote:
Some justices said they found the service suspiciously complicated. “Is there any reason you did it other than not to violate the copyright laws?” Justice Antonin Scalia asked Mr. Frederick.
quote:
“Your technological model,” Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. told Aereo’s lawyer, “is based solely on circumventing legal prohibitions that you don’t want to comply with.”
quote:
Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said Aereo’s business was built on taking content without paying for it. “You are the only player so far that doesn’t pay any royalties at any stage,” she told Mr. Frederick.
Posted on 4/24/14 at 4:04 pm to a want
quote:
here are some of the questions/comments from the S.C
No where in there did I see them questions the constitutionality of it.
quote:VCR says hi
That’s just saying your copy is different from my copy,” he said. “But that’s the reason we call them copies, because they’re the same.”
quote:Yes the do not want to violate copyright laws. Just like Apple doesn't want to violate tax laws nor pay for excessive taxes and that's why they have offices in Ireland.
Some justices said they found the service suspiciously complicated. “Is there any reason you did it other than not to violate the copyright laws?” Justice Antonin Scalia asked Mr. Frederick.
quote:Yes I don't want to comply with these prohibitions just like when GE chooses to use an indian based call center to avoid the increased cost of a call center in the USA or when the US Govt decides to hold detainees in GITMO.
Your technological model,” Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. told Aereo’s lawyer, “is based solely on circumventing legal prohibitions that you don’t want to comply with.”
quote:
“You are the only player so far that doesn’t pay any royalties at any stage,” she told Mr. Frederick.
Yes and I'm pretty sure ATT doesn't want to pay either and wishes they thought of this first.
Posted on 4/24/14 at 4:06 pm to GeeOH
quote:
I don't think they are re-transmitting simply by having the customer own the antenna devices and the devices receiving the transmission from their antenna.
taking the broadcast signal in and transmitting it through their equipment is by definition a retransmission of the original signal.
Eta: they are changing to a different medium which is basically a streaming service that could also be part of what gets them.
This post was edited on 4/24/14 at 4:10 pm
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