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Abortion and rape - spinoff
Posted on 5/22/19 at 8:42 pm
Posted on 5/22/19 at 8:42 pm
So I usually try to stay away from the abortion topic because it's an area where people are pretty firm in their opinions
So let's lay out a few basic facts
We all know that rape is often brought up by the pro choice argument. Which is a bit off a red herring since only about 1% of abortions are due to rape and most are convenience abortions.
That being said Americans while steadfast in their opinions on abortion do have some grey area.
About 60% of Americans are ok with 1st trimester abortions
Support for 2nd trimester abortions is surprisingly low even among democrats and women
Support for 3rd trimester abortions is hovering in the 12-15% range depending on what polls you look at. Most people think it should be illegal
So the point here is that most people don't have a simple binary view on abortion. They view it mainly in terms of the stage of the pregnancy
BUT that brings me to my next point. Some people who are leaning more toward the pro life side are willing to budge with instances of rape.
So let's say for instance you live in a fairly conservative state and only first trimester abortions are allowed with the exception of rape which would allow 2nd trimester abortions (assume for the sake of argument in this hypothetical that 3rd trimester abortion is still out of the question no matter what the scenario)
What do you think would happen if we had some sort of "rape exception" to our abortion laws. I have a theory - you'll see A LOT more false allegations of rape.
So let's lay out a few basic facts
We all know that rape is often brought up by the pro choice argument. Which is a bit off a red herring since only about 1% of abortions are due to rape and most are convenience abortions.
That being said Americans while steadfast in their opinions on abortion do have some grey area.
About 60% of Americans are ok with 1st trimester abortions
Support for 2nd trimester abortions is surprisingly low even among democrats and women
Support for 3rd trimester abortions is hovering in the 12-15% range depending on what polls you look at. Most people think it should be illegal
So the point here is that most people don't have a simple binary view on abortion. They view it mainly in terms of the stage of the pregnancy
BUT that brings me to my next point. Some people who are leaning more toward the pro life side are willing to budge with instances of rape.
So let's say for instance you live in a fairly conservative state and only first trimester abortions are allowed with the exception of rape which would allow 2nd trimester abortions (assume for the sake of argument in this hypothetical that 3rd trimester abortion is still out of the question no matter what the scenario)
What do you think would happen if we had some sort of "rape exception" to our abortion laws. I have a theory - you'll see A LOT more false allegations of rape.
9
Posted on 5/22/19 at 9:21 pm to Powerman
I don’t understand why I’m not allowed to rape people and force them to have my offspring while I get 3 hots and a cot for the next x years.
Used to be a free country.
Used to be a free country.
Posted on 5/22/19 at 9:30 pm to Powerman
If the reason abortion is wrong is because it is taking a human life, it shouldn’t matter what the circumstances around the conception are.
This post was edited on 5/22/19 at 11:25 pm
Posted on 5/22/19 at 9:49 pm to FooManChoo
To be logically consistent yeah that would be the idea
If you truly believe it's murder the circumstances don't matter
But not everyone thinks like that
I do think that such a distinction in the law would lead to a lot of false rape accusations though
If you truly believe it's murder the circumstances don't matter
But not everyone thinks like that
I do think that such a distinction in the law would lead to a lot of false rape accusations though
Posted on 5/22/19 at 10:12 pm to Powerman
quote:It’s still that high?!
Support for 3rd trimester abortions is hovering in the 12-15% range depending on what polls you look at. Most people think it should be illegal
As a pro choice fellow, 3rd trimester abortions are deplorable.
How hard is it to understand that pregnancy is a possibility if you’re having sex? Have a plan for when it happens. Be conscious of your body, ladies. Be proactive if you even THINK you might be pregnant.
And then get an abortion as soon as humanly possible.
But 3rd trimester? frick is wrong with people?
This post was edited on 5/22/19 at 11:59 pm
Posted on 5/22/19 at 11:06 pm to Powerman
quote:That’s the problem. Too many people are irrational.
But not everyone thinks like that
Posted on 5/22/19 at 11:09 pm to ReauxlTide222
I agree. By the 3rd trimester I think you've had ample time to make your choice.
Posted on 5/23/19 at 12:10 am to Powerman
quote:A few more? Sure. But I suspect it will be VERY few, under your scenario.
To be logically consistent yeah that would be the idea
If you truly believe it's murder the circumstances don't matter
But not everyone thinks like that
I do think that such a distinction in the law would lead to a lot of false rape accusations though
Do you know any women? I just do not know many women who would intentionally wait for an abortion until she is far-enough into a pregnancy to start getting ... heavier ..., assuming that the service is readily-available at weeks 8-14 or so. Pure vanity, but there you have it.
Posted on 5/23/19 at 12:12 am to AggieHank86
quote:
A few more? Sure. But I suspect it will be VERY few, under your scenario.
Do you know any women? I just do not know many women who would intentionally wait for an abortion until she is far-enough into a pregnancy to start getting ... heavier ..., assuming that the service is readily-available at weeks 8-14 or so. Pure vanity, but there you have it.
Women are known for doing crazy things for pure vanity reasons
I suppose there wouldn't be THAT many. But if you had an outright ban where even first trimester abortions were only available in cases of rape then my hypothesis would probably be very legitimate.
Posted on 5/23/19 at 6:10 am to Powerman
quote:
What do you think would happen if we had some sort of "rape exception" to our abortion laws.
BamaAtl said he/she supports abortions up to 36 weeks for no other reason than convenience, and even after 36 weeks in cases of rape.
Posted on 5/23/19 at 6:28 am to Powerman
quote:
about 1% of abortions are due to rape
I don't thin you can support this statement. How do you know how many women were raped but didn't prosecute due to an unwillingness to go through the trauma of a trail, and only wish to abort the fetus and move on with their lives?
Posted on 5/23/19 at 6:40 am to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
about 1% of abortions are due to rapequote:
I don't thin you can support this statement.
LINK
quote:
In 2004, the Guttmacher Institute anonymously surveyed 1,209 post-abortive women from nine different abortion clinics across the country. Of the women surveyed, 957 provided a main reason for having an abortion. This table lists each reason and the percentage of respondents who chose it.
quote:
<0.5% victim of rape
quote:
The state of Florida records a reason for every abortion that occurs within its borders each year. In 2018, there were 70,083 abortions in Florida. This table lists each reason and the percentage of abortions that occurred because of it.
quote:
.14% the woman was raped
ETA:
LINK
quote:
And according to the Guttmacher Institute, the research arm of the nation’s leading abortion seller, Planned Parenthood:
quote:
About 15,000 abortions are attributed to rape and incest — representing 1.5 percent of all abortions.
This post was edited on 5/23/19 at 6:42 am
Posted on 5/23/19 at 6:51 am to ReauxlTide222
You realize most 3rd trimester abortions are related to defects that they cannot detect until later in the pregnancy, right?
This post was edited on 5/23/19 at 6:53 am
Posted on 5/23/19 at 6:55 am to IrishTiger89
quote:
You realize most 3rd trimester abortions are related to defects that they cannot detect until later in the pregnancy, right?
can you provide some data to back this up?
Posted on 5/23/19 at 6:57 am to FooManChoo
i know it drives some crazy, but I fall in the 95% percent of abortions are wrong.
My kids jacked up my wife’s insides. She can still get pregnant (well not from me), but more than likely her mamma parts would burst open in the first trimester, thus more than likely killing her and the baby, so we can’t ignore that 1% no matter how unlikely. We have a pretty devastating yet easy decision,
That said I also believe in state rights, so if we lived in Alabama, we would consider moving to a state that allowed limited abortion laws. That is the whole point in having states. Each should have a unique set of laws and people should live where they feel represented.
My kids jacked up my wife’s insides. She can still get pregnant (well not from me), but more than likely her mamma parts would burst open in the first trimester, thus more than likely killing her and the baby, so we can’t ignore that 1% no matter how unlikely. We have a pretty devastating yet easy decision,
That said I also believe in state rights, so if we lived in Alabama, we would consider moving to a state that allowed limited abortion laws. That is the whole point in having states. Each should have a unique set of laws and people should live where they feel represented.
Posted on 5/23/19 at 6:57 am to Powerman
I don't know. Today I'm tired of the abortion discussion. Maybe I'll firm my opinion up in about two weeks.
Posted on 5/23/19 at 7:43 am to Powerman
I believe that a distinct individual innocent human life starts at conception, and killing an innocent child after the mother is raped is just compounding evil with evil.
However, according to the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, “Sexual assault may lead to pregnancy. The national rape-related pregnancy rate is approximately 5% per rape among women aged 12–45 years, or approximately 32,000 pregnancies resulting from rape each year“.
And, according to the Guttmacher Institute, the best source of US abortion statistics, ”In 2014, an estimated 926,200 abortions were performed in the United States.” This number would be high for today because fortunately the numbers have been trending down over time.
So a reduction of baby murders from about 900,000 (assuming reduction but also twin and multiple pregnancies) to 32,000 a year, would be glorious first step towards the goal of 0 murders of all types.
However, according to the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, “Sexual assault may lead to pregnancy. The national rape-related pregnancy rate is approximately 5% per rape among women aged 12–45 years, or approximately 32,000 pregnancies resulting from rape each year“.
And, according to the Guttmacher Institute, the best source of US abortion statistics, ”In 2014, an estimated 926,200 abortions were performed in the United States.” This number would be high for today because fortunately the numbers have been trending down over time.
So a reduction of baby murders from about 900,000 (assuming reduction but also twin and multiple pregnancies) to 32,000 a year, would be glorious first step towards the goal of 0 murders of all types.
Posted on 5/23/19 at 7:47 am to civiltiger07
quote:
surveyed 1,209 post-abortive women from nine different abortion clinics across the country. Of the women surveyed, 957 provided a main reason for having an abortion.
What about the 20% that didn't provide a main reason? What reasons might a woman have for not answering the question?
Posted on 5/23/19 at 8:12 am to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
What about the 20% that didn't provide a main reason?
You probably had some that didn't want to say they were raped. However with the amount of statistics we have that say rape accounts for less than 5% of abortions it would be within reason to assume a small percentage of the 20% were cases of rape.
quote:
What reasons might a woman have for not answering the question?
They don't want to admit they terminated a pregnancy for convenience.
Posted on 5/23/19 at 8:29 am to Seeker
quote:
My kids jacked up my wife’s insides. She can still get pregnant (well not from me), but more than likely her mamma parts would burst open in the first trimester, thus more than likely killing her and the baby, so we can’t ignore that 1% no matter how unlikely. We have a pretty devastating yet easy decision,
No one is forcing her to get pregnant. She can get her tubes tied if she is worried about this.
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