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Message
re: 2020 election fraud question
Posted on 8/20/23 at 8:54 am to CelticDog
Posted on 8/20/23 at 8:54 am to CelticDog
quote:The mail in ballots have been ruled as inadmissable in multiple states. Perhaps you missed the news stories.
im interested in your specific constitution violations
quote:
Trumps three instances of calling upon the nation to reinstall him without regard for constitutional processes
ITT, rampant election fraud has been cited, election officials defying court orders, J6 people jailed without due process, no trial, not allowed to use exculpatory video evidence in their favor, the government lying about J6 events, and THIS is what you're focused on. And why didn't you mention Trump saying to protest peacefully?
quote:Allegedly, according to the prosecution who is now possibly facing impeachment for prosecutorial misconduct. The indictment is a mess, is legally embarassing and is absolutely a political witch hunt. But let's get distracted with this circus instead of prosecuting election fraud that is an infringment of people's rights.
he was specific. ignore the constitution and make me president now. now!
quote:Perhaps you should have your eyes checked because it's hilariously and stupendously bad.
see that request on trumps part as a call to insurrection
quote:Exactly. Care to take a stab at the question in the OP instead of this garbage post of yours?
maybe the big picture right now is worthy of your address
Who told you Biden got 81 mil votes?
0
Posted on 8/20/23 at 8:57 am to TheQuestion
quote:
The article continues to go on explaining how shady dumps of ballots
You should re-read the article. They weren't shady, it was normal vote counting.
Posted on 8/20/23 at 9:05 am to TheQuestion
quote:
4 hour delay reported by Georgia officials
Did you bother to read the article you linked? The delay due to a water leak occurred in the MORNING on election day, as I've been saying.
The leak caused a 4 hour delay in PROCESSING ballots, but only a brief delay in COUNTING ballots. And this was all before noon on election day.
quote:
"Republicans were allowed to review tape of what occurred while they were gone"
Who are you even quoting here? Not me, and not the article you linked. And by "Republicans" did they mean ALL poll watchers?
quote:
meaning, they faked the water problem, waited for poll watchers to leave, resumed counting and then propagated the narrative.
Your are so dense. Water problem in the morning, little effect on counting. As the article you linked states, they originally thought it was okay to close at 10:30. They actually resumed counting a little after 11, which was a few minutes before the article you linked was posted online.
As multiple poll watchers have stated, no one told them to leave. They heard the site was closing so they left on their own. I can't find out what time they started coming back, but they were free to at any time.
quote:
How are some people STILL getting the details of this story wrong?
How are YOU getting the details so wrong when you just linked an article with the real story? You just want there to be fraud so badly you cannot see the truth right in front of you
quote:
And that's the question. You willingly accept that the government told you VOILA! Biden magically has more votes, which is of course naive
Well, I believed what the media reporting the election results told me, which was that Michigan had a large update. Nothing seemed "magical" about it. I don't know what caused the delay in reporting the numbers.
Your whole position on this is just weird. None of us has any first hand knowledge of any votes cast in any election other than our own. If you are on an election board, you may have first hand information on votes cast in your county, but nowhere else.
Our elections are based on faith in other people. We all have to rely on our elected officials to run fair and accurate elections (Well, accurate to within 0.02%, which is about the best we can do), and we have to rely on the media to accurately report it. This is true for every single election.
Do you even have a concept of how many people 155 million is, or how difficult it is to accurately count those votes? No one person has direct knowledge of how votes were compiled and counted across the nation.
You keep saying you can prove Trump got 74 million votes, because the people physically showed up at the polls. Well, a lot of them sent mail in ballots as well, and plenty of them early voted. But you are just blindly willing to accept that the gubmint properly counted the in person votes? Just because you saw people in lines wearing MAGA hats?
The simple fact is that you want to trust the people telling you Trump got 74 million votes, but you don't want to trust the people telling you Biden got 81.
I don't mind you questioning anomalies that might indicate fraud. But fraud is a serious accusation and you should make sure your facts are accurate. Like in Fulton County, where I live, and you can't even get the smallest facts right.
Posted on 8/20/23 at 9:26 am to BamaAtl
quote:
They weren't shady, it was normal vote counting
Ah yes, the old "nothing to see here." Ballot counters sent home
Watchers leave since no ballot counting is going on
Ballot counters sneak back in and start pulling ballots out of unofficial suitcases
Counting resumes
Poll watchers return and VOILA! Biden wins! Yay for America
All totally normal
Posted on 8/20/23 at 9:51 am to Dday63
quote:
We all have to rely on our elected officials to run fair and accurate elections
quote:
we have to rely on the media to accurately report it
anyone who thinks either of these statements comes close to reality - especially since 2016 - needs to be ignored.
And above all else - it is the influence of the MEDIA that is the real root of the problem.
There has ALWAYs been fraud in local election precincts - especially in heavily urban areas. But as long as there was SOME fear of being exposed by the media, it was contained to individual cases where at most a few dozen ballots could be treated 'differently' - and there has been 'harvesting' of votes from places like nursing homes where 'good intentioned helpers' go "help" the comatose fill out their ballots.
But again, these were small numbers and it was just a burden that conservative (meaning more rural) areas had to contend with - they probably went into every election for the past 150 years knowing they had to get 52-53 perecent of the HONEST vote in order to beat out the 2-3 percent fraud from Democrats.
BUT in THIS election - they fraud went wholesale - open to MASSIVE fraud.
MILLIONS of ballots were MAILED OUT - and the review of those ballots on return was totally lacking - especially in URBAN areas.
Anyone who does not RECOGNIZE the vulnerability of the MASSIVE MAIL-OUT system is absolutely LYING - or are too simple-minded to know which way is up.
and ANYONE who RESISTS any effort to AUDIT such a system is ADMITTING they know the fraud was not only present, but MASSIVE wrt normal experience.
IF you are SECURE in your assertion that the election was FAIR and HONEST - you would not only not object to an audit - you would DEMAND a forensic audit - just to shut those 'rascally conspirators' up.
BUT the converse is true - you fight harder to STOP and AUDIT than you ever do to promote safe election practices.
Your WORDs sound 'plausibly denied' but they are ADMISSIONs of 'fear of exposure'.
There is NO other explanation of the entire scenario of the state of elections since 2016.
Posted on 8/20/23 at 10:18 am to Dday63
quote:I don't dispute this
The delay due to a water leak occurred in the MORNING on election day, as I've been saying
quote:That "delay" in counting means something
The leak caused a 4 hour delay in PROCESSING ballots, but only a brief delay in COUNTING ballots
quote:Fulton elections supervisor Richard Barron
Who are you even quoting here?
"Barron said he sent almost all of his staff home...And so GOP observers left because they thought counting was done for the night. But five county workers stayed to process more ballots until 1 a.m."
There was a delay, workers left, watchers left, workers stayed and counted ballots without oversight. That is according to Georgia election officials.
quote:There was counting without observers and we know ballots were pulled out of shady suitcases from underneath tables. No reasonable person would find this situation acceptable and not entirely suspicious
little effect on counting
quote:Factually incorrect according to Georgia election officials. Regardless, it doesn't even matter. They waited until the observers left, then resumed counting without oversight.
As multiple poll watchers have stated, no one told them to leave. They heard the site was closing so they left on their own
quote:I haven't even included the pauses in PA and MI
You just want there to be fraud so badly you cannot see the truth right in front of you
quote:Well we certainly wouldn't want to investigate something suspicious happening to something so important. It's better to just believe what the media/government says
I don't know what caused the delay in reporting the numbers
quote:Perhaps you don't understand the question
Your whole position on this is just weird
quote:I've already addressed this. Trump's votes were largely in person on election day as confirmed by almost anyone who voted, worked at a poll, counted ballots, etc. Biden's absentee votes are a completely different matter as has been discussed ITT. Many have been proven fraudulent. Some ruled ineligible. Many are shady with no chain of custody, mismatched/no signature, among other problems with the ballot itself.
None of us has any first hand knowledge of any votes cast in any election other than our own
quote:we absolutely do not
we have to rely on the media to accurately report it
quote:And we know they have lied and cheated.
We all have to rely on our elected officials to run fair and accurate elections
quote:With illegal/shady 2020 absentee ballots, absolutely. With same day, in person election votes, not nearly as difficult.
how difficult it is to accurately count those votes?
quote:I am all for investigating every single one of them regardless of the candidate. But we know that in the middle of the night, there were hundreds of thousands that were magically for Biden. We know ballots were scanned multiple times. We know machines were tampered with. We know many other problems with the ballots that have been discussed over and over. That was not the case for Trump. So when you look at the big picture, it reeks of fraud.
But you are just blindly willing to accept that the gubmint properly counted the in person votes
quote:I have posted substantiation for the question. If you read the thread again carefully, you will see your characterization is not accurate at all
The simple fact is that you want to trust the people telling you Trump got 74 million votes, but you don't want to trust the people telling you Biden got 81
Posted on 8/20/23 at 10:19 am to TheQuestion
So 10 pages, no answer to the question and a whole lot of deflection and obfuscation and sophistry. Shocking
Posted on 8/20/23 at 10:19 am to ChineseBandit58
quote:
Anyone who does not RECOGNIZE the vulnerability of the MASSIVE MAIL-OUT system is absolutely LYING - or are too simple-minded to know which way is up.
and ANYONE who RESISTS any effort to AUDIT such a system is ADMITTING they know the fraud was not only present, but MASSIVE wrt normal experience.
IF you are SECURE in your assertion that the election was FAIR and HONEST - you would not only not object to an audit - you would DEMAND a forensic audit - just to shut those 'rascally conspirators' up.
I'm not sure if the "you" was literally me, or just a collective "you". But I will respond.
I don't know why you say my statements about having to rely on our elected officials and the media to get our election information is unrealistic. Where else will you get your information? Even if some independent agency conducts an audit, now you have to rely on that agency, who in turn is relying on the information provided to them by the government. It's never ending.
I didn't say you have to "trust" the government and media, just that you have to rely on them for the information because there is no one else.
I do not believe large scale mail in ballots are necessarily vulnerable. The State of Washington has used 100% mail in balloting for years with no major issues. But they took a long time to perfect their system.
I do believe it was unwise for States to just expand their absentee voting rules overnight, without examining their procedures for stronger security. No Secretary of State even bothered to call Washington's SOS for some pointers. They just went broad, which did invite issues. But it was also done well before the election, which allowed time for people to object.
In Georgia, no excuse absentee balloting became the law due to Republican efforts. As I mentioned in another thread, Republicans used to be in favor of mail in ballots because they count on votes from people with jobs, and the elderly, who may have a hard time getting to the polls on election day.
The drop boxes were the new wrinkle, set up by the Republican dominated election commission. Stacy Abrams, the State's leading Democrat, objected, and agreed to a settlement with a change in the signature matching procedure.
Now we are supposed to listen to Republicans tell us the system was inherently unreliable?
I've never said our election was 100% fair and honest. I've always assumed some level of fraud, but usually not enough to be outcome determinative.
My complaint is with people asserting massive fraud based on misstatements of fact. Find me actual evidence of fraud, and we'll talk.
I have nothing against an audit, as long as it is conducted by an independent group at their own expense, and as long as their methodology and results are transparent.
Posted on 8/20/23 at 11:04 am to TheQuestion
quote:
The delay due to a water leak occurred in the MORNING on election day, as I've been saying
I don't dispute this
About freaking time. Please quit claiming poll watchers were sent home due to a fake water leak.
quote:
quote:
The leak caused a 4 hour delay in PROCESSING ballots, but only a brief delay in COUNTING ballots
That "delay" in counting means something
Really? What does it mean? Absentee Vote counting got started a little later than expected. That doesn't suggest anything.
quote:
Richard Barron
"Barron said he sent almost all of his staff home...And so GOP observers left because they thought counting was done for the night. But five county workers stayed to process more ballots until 1 a.m."
Exactly what I have been saying.
So now you can stop claiming Georgia had a mysterious stop in its vote counting early in the morning and in conjunction with the other swing states. Also, "the GOP observers left because they thought counting was done for the night." So, no one told them to leave.
quote:
There was counting without observers and we know ballots were pulled out of shady suitcases from underneath tables. No reasonable person would find this situation acceptable and not entirely suspicious
Those ballot containers were placed under the tables - in full view of poll watchers - when the workers thought they were going home.
The heavily edited security footage certainly seemed suspicious. That's why it was fully investigated by the SOS office, the GBI, the FBI, and the Trump-appiinted US attorney for the Northern District of Georgia, BJ Pak. They all concluded there was no wrong doing.
Pak was forced to resign on the grounds he wasn't investigating the fraud hard enough. He was replaced by Trump loyalist Bobby Christine who also found no evidence of fraud.
Yet here you are, claiming this is clear evidence of fraud and must be investigated. What would satisfy you at this point?
quote:
quote:
As multiple poll watchers have stated, no one told them to leave. They heard the site was closing so they left on their own
Factually incorrect according to Georgia election official
Again, you misunderstand your own references. No one told the poll watchers to leave, they just heard counting had stopped for the night and left. You even quoted that above
quote:
quote:
I don't know what caused the delay in reporting the [Michigan]numbers
Well we certainly wouldn't want to investigate something suspicious happening to something so important. It's better to just believe what the media/government says
No, I would be fine with an investigation. I just don't find anything inherently suspicious in a reporting delay. If there is more to the story, then let's hear it.
quote:
quote:
we have to rely on the media to accurately report it
we absolutely do not
quote:
We all have to rely on our elected officials to run fair and accurate elections
And we know they have lied and cheated.
Well, I don't know where else you are going to get your information. You cannot personally confirm every single vote that was cast. I didn't say you had to trust the media and government, but those are your only sources of information here.
quote:
how difficult it is to accurately count those votes?
With illegal/shady 2020 absentee ballots, absolutely. With same day, in person election votes, not nearly as difficult.
No, you really do not understand the enormity of these numbers. It is virtually impossible to 100% correctly compile and count even 1 million votes. Multiply that by 155 and you can expect a large amount of inconsistencies.
Voting in person might make it easier to identify voters (still not perfect, but easier), but it does not make it any easier to count those votes. And you, as an individual, still have no way to personally verify the count is accurate.
quote:
But we know that... [b]That was not the case for Trump.
How do you know that was not the case for Trump? The only verified charges of voter fraud I have seen were almost all for Trump
This post was edited on 8/20/23 at 11:07 am
Posted on 8/20/23 at 11:07 am to Dday63
quote:
My complaint is with people asserting massive fraud based on misstatements of fact. Find me actual evidence of fraud, and we'll talk.
there isnt any or the liar in chief would have shared it Monday. and td posters would have posted it 2 yers ago.
its bs. ag barr says.
Posted on 8/20/23 at 11:09 am to TheQuestion
quote:
. But we know that in the middle of the night, there were hundreds of thousands that were magically for Biden. We know ballots were scanned multiple times. We know machines were tampered with
Sidney Powell has joined the chat.
This post was edited on 8/20/23 at 11:12 am
Posted on 8/20/23 at 11:31 am to TheQuestion
Our FBI and DOJ and media looked into the 2020 election and found it to be the most honest ever.
You know the same group that said Covid came from anywhere else but NOT China and vaccines were 94% effective in preventing Covid. And ordered the censoring of those you presented evidence to the contrary.
You know the same group that said Covid came from anywhere else but NOT China and vaccines were 94% effective in preventing Covid. And ordered the censoring of those you presented evidence to the contrary.
This post was edited on 8/20/23 at 11:32 am
Posted on 8/20/23 at 12:13 pm to bird35
quote:
Our FBI and DOJ and media looked into the 2020 election and found it to be the most honest ever.
As well as an awful lot of Republicans and Trump supporters.
Who else do you want to investigate, and on what basis?
Or maybe just go ahead and admit you will not believe anyone who says they found no evidence of significant fraud.
Posted on 8/20/23 at 12:40 pm to Dday63
quote:
admit you will not believe anyone who says they found no evidence of significant fraud.
massive fraud, the new "Obama was born in Kenya".
Posted on 8/20/23 at 5:05 pm to Dday63
quote:
About freaking time
That statement had nothing to do with anything. It doesn't help your case at all quote:You are obtuse. It means that there was vote counting while observers were not present. No reasonable person would find this acceptable. This seems really difficult for you to understand
What does it mean?
quote:Then you can't be reasoned with. Vote counting occurred without oversight. Reasonable people find this unacceptable
That doesn't suggest anything
quote:No, you said no one told the poll workers to leave. I quoted Georgia election officials contradicting your claim. You are wrong.
Exactly what I have been saying
quote:That's not what I said. What I said is that ballot counters waited until the observers left and then resumed counting. They also pulled ballots out of shady suitcases from underneath tables.
So now you can stop claiming Georgia had a mysterious stop in its vote counting
quote:I never said anything about "in conjunction with" but there definitely were pauses in other states similar to Georgia. It was during those times that Biden received extremely suspicious jumps in votes due to problematic absentee ballots. It's unfortunate you are unable to comprehend that this looks incredibly fraudulent.
in conjunction with the other swing states
quote:Who cares. They left because there was ostensibly no vote counting going on. But we now know that wasn't the case.
So, no one told them to leave.
quote:Which decreases the suspicious nature precisely zero.
Those ballot containers were placed under the tables - in full view of poll watchers
quote:
The heavily edited security footage
The nouveau lib gaslighting. "Don't believe what your eyes are seeing." quote:You have already established that you are willing to believe what you are told by the government who fought against independent oversight, defied court orders, etc. I'm just wondering how many posts you will continue to make childishly deflecting from answering the question
They all concluded there was no wrong doing.
quote:The first hurdle has been cleared in the VoterGA case. We'll see where that goes. We know that the dropboxes and the chain of custody were a problem in potentially more than 100k ballots, well over the margin of victory. The initial judge hid behind the spineless "no standing" ruling but that fortunately was overturned.
What would satisfy you at this point?
quote:It's not my claim. There is factual evidence for it.
Yet here you are, claiming this is clear evidence of fraud
quote:You can't even acknowledge the obvious problem - ballot counting restarted after the observers left. If you can't acknowledge that, you can't be reasoned with
If there is more to the story, then let's hear it
quote:Fortunately, you are wrong on this point
I didn't say you had to trust the media and government, but those are your only sources of information here
quote:No one entity is counting the entire country's votes so, you are being disingenuous
Multiply that by 155 and you can expect a large amount of inconsistencies.
quote:It most certainly does and it all but eliminates fraud. No shady mail in ballots that have a multitude of forensic and logistical problems
it does not make it any easier to count those votes
quote:This is still untrue no matter how many times you repeat it. There can be independent oversight at each counting location. No one location is responsible for the entire country's ballots.
still have no way to personally verify the count is accurate.
quote:I've already cited the 14 cases won by GOP plaintiffs so you are misinformed.
The only verified charges of voter fraud I have seen were almost all for Trump
Posted on 8/20/23 at 5:05 pm to CelticDog
quote:Did I say something false?
Sidney Powell has joined the chat
Posted on 8/20/23 at 5:07 pm to Dday63
quote:And 3rd party investigators have found RAMPANT fraud. That is why I asked the initial question which you childishly have not answered along with several other obstinate knuckleheads ITT
admit you will not believe anyone who says they found no evidence of significant fraud
Posted on 8/20/23 at 5:08 pm to TheQuestion
They can’t and they own the people who have the power to do something about it
Posted on 8/20/23 at 5:13 pm to TheQuestion
quote:
Ah yes, the old "nothing to see here."
Ballot counters sent home
Watchers leave since no ballot counting is going on
Ballot counters sneak back in and start pulling ballots out of unofficial suitcases
Counting resumes
Poll watchers return and VOILA! Biden wins! Yay for America
All totally normal
It was just pure coincidence that the same routine happened in the wee hours of the night in the critical swing states pushing Biden to unheard of levels of votes.
Posted on 8/20/23 at 5:18 pm to CelticDog
quote:
massive fraud, the new "Obama was born in Kenya".
So you are continuing to prove you blindly believe what you are told. Arpaio says it's a forgery. I guess you have proven him wrong? More likely, your handlers told you it's real and you dutifully brought that here And you still haven't answered the question
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