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re: 2014 May = warmest on record.
Posted on 6/19/14 at 1:48 pm to SpidermanTUba
Posted on 6/19/14 at 1:48 pm to SpidermanTUba
quote:
A positive sum of cash now will always be a positive sum of cash in the future.
Oh my.
0
Posted on 6/19/14 at 1:48 pm to catholictigerfan
quote:
co2 and the sun's activity are two affects on the earth climate out of hundreds the question is when it comes to the earth's average temperature what has a bigger impact the relative activity of the sun or the amount of co2 in the atmosphere?
How do you measure "impact" ? If you took away the sun the Earth's temperature would eventually drop to a few degrees Kelvin no matter what its atmosphere was.
The Sun is certainly a big driver of Earth's climate. I think the point you are missing is that the Sun cannot logically account for the industrial age era warming.
This graph makes it obvious.
LINK
Posted on 6/19/14 at 1:48 pm to SpidermanTUba
good point, but at the same time recently the earth hasn't warmed that much and maybe even slightly decreased but co2 continues to raise. Maybe there are multiple factors that effect the temperature of the earth.
I may be wrong about the effect of the sun on the earth, but you have still yet to prove to me the doomsday scenarios that GW supporters continue to talk about.
Let's say in the next 50 years the average earth temperature raises 1 degree C. What does that do to our climate. Does that flood coastal cities because the ocean's will raise so much, will we struggle to get food because of the heat waves and droughts? Nothing has yet to prove to me that GW will destroy our environment and our way of living. Some bad things may happen but the doomsday stuff people like to talk about just seems to never happen.
GW aren't the only ones guilty of it. The overpopulation crowd does the same thing but they never seem to come true.
I may be wrong about the effect of the sun on the earth, but you have still yet to prove to me the doomsday scenarios that GW supporters continue to talk about.
Let's say in the next 50 years the average earth temperature raises 1 degree C. What does that do to our climate. Does that flood coastal cities because the ocean's will raise so much, will we struggle to get food because of the heat waves and droughts? Nothing has yet to prove to me that GW will destroy our environment and our way of living. Some bad things may happen but the doomsday stuff people like to talk about just seems to never happen.
GW aren't the only ones guilty of it. The overpopulation crowd does the same thing but they never seem to come true.
Posted on 6/19/14 at 1:49 pm to CptBengal
Posted on 6/19/14 at 1:49 pm to SpidermanTUba
quote:
A positive sum of cash now will always be a positive sum of cash in the future.
Posted on 6/19/14 at 1:56 pm to catholictigerfan
quote:
good point, but at the same time recently the earth hasn't warmed that much and maybe even slightly decreased but co2 continues to raise
The warming paused for 28 years beginning in 1944. Then in the 70's it began again and kept going till ~2000.
Of course this is counting trends the way the denialists do it - by the last annual average maximum. This makes little sense. May as well take the last 2 year average max, or the last 1 month average max - whatever makes things look the best for you.
If you are attempting to make comparisons with the Sun - it makes obvious sense to average over 11 years.
The CO2 induced warming trend has been - and will continue to occur - over multi-decadal time periods. I think even the IPPC reports average model predictions over 20 year period. It is an escapable reality. What you and I see as clear air is actually becoming more and more opaque to certain bands of infra-red radiation - all else being equal - continuing to add to this opacity will increase our temperature.
BTW - I'm going to give you the title of global warming skeptic. Most of the people claiming to be skeptics here are just denialists.
This post was edited on 6/19/14 at 1:59 pm
Posted on 6/19/14 at 1:56 pm to SpidermanTUba
I don't believe anything coming out of Obama's NASA.
But I'll play along. Oh no, CO2 at 400 ppm! Should we kill ourselves now to save the planet or should we just begin living like those in the stone age? No cars, no electricity, no use of anything made from fossil fuels (that's a long long list).
Oh, and give our money to Obama.
But I'll play along. Oh no, CO2 at 400 ppm! Should we kill ourselves now to save the planet or should we just begin living like those in the stone age? No cars, no electricity, no use of anything made from fossil fuels (that's a long long list).
Oh, and give our money to Obama.
Posted on 6/19/14 at 1:57 pm to SpidermanTUba
spiddy you got me on the sun point I'm going to leave it at that for now.
Granted I still find it interesting that in the 17th and 18th century a very inactive sun caused a little ice age. (at-least it appears that way) Also the sun has recently been more active than it has for the past 400 years or so. I'm still not convinced that the variations of the activity of the sun has little to no impact on the environment. Just because the sun's activity goes down but our temp goes up doesn't mean that solar minimums and maximums don't effect the climate. GW advocates have said that increasing co2 leads to higher temps, but over the last 14 years that isn't the case. I haven't done enough research to argue with you on the sun point, so I will leave it at that.
Granted I still find it interesting that in the 17th and 18th century a very inactive sun caused a little ice age. (at-least it appears that way) Also the sun has recently been more active than it has for the past 400 years or so. I'm still not convinced that the variations of the activity of the sun has little to no impact on the environment. Just because the sun's activity goes down but our temp goes up doesn't mean that solar minimums and maximums don't effect the climate. GW advocates have said that increasing co2 leads to higher temps, but over the last 14 years that isn't the case. I haven't done enough research to argue with you on the sun point, so I will leave it at that.
Posted on 6/19/14 at 2:00 pm to BobBoucher
quote:And in turn our fuana are soaking that stuff up like it's 'shine. CO2 isn't the problem. Let's talk water vapor.
We're the only organism thats unlocking the CO2 it took the planet millions of years to remove from the environment.
Posted on 6/19/14 at 2:02 pm to EST
quote:
I don't believe anything coming out of Obama's NASA.
quote:
But I'll play along. Oh no, CO2 at 400 ppm! Should we kill ourselves now to save the planet or should we just begin living like those in the stone age? No cars, no electricity, no use of anything made from fossil fuels (that's a long long list).
So in your opinion when we run out of fossil fuel - back to the stone ages, right?
Since best case estimates have that at around 500 years - wouldn't it make since to cut our use dramatically? I don't know about you, but I'd like civilization to endure for more than 500 years.
Posted on 6/19/14 at 2:04 pm to Bamadiver
quote:
And in turn our fuana are soaking that stuff up like it's 'shine.
link? Its kinda hard to believe what with deforestation, urban sprawl and all...
Plus, i dont think we're unlocking vast amounts of water vapor in to the environment that took millions of years to lock away.
Posted on 6/19/14 at 2:04 pm to SpidermanTUba
Tuba: you notice you're the only one who really starts these threads anymore? The rest of us were beaten into submission long ago.
I've turned to trolling. Much more entertaining...
but keep fightin' the good fight bro.
I've turned to trolling. Much more entertaining...
but keep fightin' the good fight bro.
Posted on 6/19/14 at 2:05 pm to SpidermanTUba
quote:
The CO2 induced warming trend has been - and will continue to occur - over multi-decadal time periods. I think even the IPPC reports average model predictions over 20 year period. It is an escapable reality. What you and I see as clear air is actually becoming more and more opaque to certain bands of infra-red radiation - all else being equal - continuing to add to this opacity will increase our temperature.
there is one problem with this in my view and that is we are really just going with guess work. Information collected by scientist seem to think that co2 cause an increase in temperature which would make sense with an increase in green house gases, but the problem is the data we have collected is such a small portion of the earth's history that it is difficult to really know for certain. Yeah we have data on the long history of the earth but that has a .5 uncertainty and the thing is we have NO idea what caused the warming and cooling of the earth? Could co2 cause global warming sure it could, could the sun have a major impact on the temperature of the earth and effect the Earth in ways we don't completely understand yet.
All I know is this.
1) the second half of the 20th century there was a warming trend for most of those 50 years.
2) over the past 14 or so years that warming trend has slowed down and now seems to be leveling off and starting to go down.
3) the sun during the 20th century was in a maximum period and is now coming out of it.
4) it appears that a minimum solar cycle can cause climate change on the earth. The problem is that we only have 400 years of observations of the sun's cycles, and we really have no idea how it works over thousands of years. Many people were saying that 2012 was going to be a very active year for the sun or cycle 24 was going to be more active.
5) I have yet to see any significant proof that global warming will cause destruction like people have predicted.
6) the earth goes through natural warming and cooling cycles, could this be a part of that cycle and co2 not be a part of it?
I believe we are in a warming trend, maybe humans are the major contributing factor to it, maybe not, but I find it very hard to believe that something that has been natural to the earth for millions of years will now all of a sudden wipe us out.
Posted on 6/19/14 at 2:08 pm to catholictigerfan
quote:
Just because the sun's activity goes down but our temp goes up doesn't mean that solar minimums and maximums don't effect the climate.
They do - even now. That's not in dispute. If subtract the contribution of solar cycles from the temperature plot, the plot would change, but the overall trend for the last ~100 years would still look about the same. Its sort like a contest between two high scoring football teams where one team is the dominant team. There's a lot of scoring back and forth but the dominant trend puts the best team way on top by the end.
quote:
GW advocates have said that increasing co2 leads to higher temps
over long time periods
quote:
but over the last 14 years that isn't the case.
That's only if you measure from the last annual maximum - an arbitrary choice - and a poor one. No one is asserting that each year will be warmer than the previous any more than they are asserting each month will be warmer than the last.
quote:
2) over the past 14 or so years that warming trend has slowed down and now seems to be leveling off and starting to go down.
5) I have yet to see any significant proof that global warming will cause destruction like people have predicted.
2) But its not going down. See the title of this thread.
5) The math is quite simple for people living on the coast. Even if AGW doesn't cause a change in frequency or intensity of hurricanes, the rise in sea level means more flood water.
Sea level is presently going up at a rate in the upper range of IPCC predictions. The upper range puts the rise at > 3 feet by 2100. 3 feet of floodwater in your home is quite significant.
This post was edited on 6/19/14 at 2:14 pm
Posted on 6/19/14 at 2:09 pm to SpidermanTUba
quote:
The CO2 induced warming trend has been - and will continue to occur - over multi-decadal time periods.
can you explain to me then when there was much higher CO2 before the last global ice age, and simultaneously not warming in line with your argument.
It would stand to reason that CO2 would have the same effect, right?
quote:
I think even the IPPC reports average model predictions over 20 year period
They don't, and you have no idea what you're talking about. You can go read the actual mdoels from the actual modelers, they tell you what they do.
Posted on 6/19/14 at 2:09 pm to catholictigerfan
I don't care if you call me a skeptic. When it comes to issues I care about that impact the world the amount we pollute is like #100 on my list.
Abortion
poverty
hunger,
economic issues
education
the decreasing trend of religion in the first world
the growing secularism
obama care
attacks on religious freedom
attacks on the family
All of these things I mentioned I believe will have a bigger impact on our world than the apparent fear of the world being a couple degrees warmer.
I have put a lot of time and energy into this mainly because I enjoying arguing. But global warming is the last thing on my mind on a daily basis.
Abortion
poverty
hunger,
economic issues
education
the decreasing trend of religion in the first world
the growing secularism
obama care
attacks on religious freedom
attacks on the family
All of these things I mentioned I believe will have a bigger impact on our world than the apparent fear of the world being a couple degrees warmer.
I have put a lot of time and energy into this mainly because I enjoying arguing. But global warming is the last thing on my mind on a daily basis.
This post was edited on 6/19/14 at 2:11 pm
Posted on 6/19/14 at 2:09 pm to SpidermanTUba
quote:
SpidermanTUba
You're needed in the Scott Walker thread. I think your side has decided to push that issue today. Thx.
Posted on 6/19/14 at 2:11 pm to SpidermanTUba
quote:
would still look about the same.
no it doesnt. It only looks the same when you work off of an "anomaly"...an "anomaly" to what I have no idea because the Earth's temperature is always changing.
quote:
GW advocates have said that increasing co2 leads to higher temps
over long time periods
again, can you then explain the much higher CO2 before the last glacial maximum, and the fact that much higher CO2 than today resulted in a glacial maximum. tia.
quote:
That's only if you measure from the last annual maximum - an arbitrary choice - and a poor one. No one is asserting that each year will be warmer than the previous any more than they are asserting each month will be warmer than the last.
your preferred graph/measurement is based on a normalization. Why is that normalization better?
Posted on 6/19/14 at 2:13 pm to CptBengal
I'm going to continue to come back to see if someone will suggest how devastating global warming will be. I haven't taken a science class in about 3 or 4 years it is hard for me to get back into this mindset and look at this stuff so all this arguments about co2 and it's effects goes over my head. I'm backing out for now.
Posted on 6/19/14 at 2:15 pm to catholictigerfan
quote:
I don't care if you call me a skeptic.
Skeptic is a GOOD thing. It was a compliment.
Denialist is a bad thing.
quote:
All of these things I mentioned I believe will have a bigger impact on our world than the apparent fear of the world being a couple degrees warmer.
I'm far more concerned with the sea level rise that will be a consequence of higher temperatures than just being a couple of degrees warmer.
quote:
But global warming is the last thing on my mind on a daily basis.
It should be. Cap & trade would take care of it all.
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