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Message
re: Taurus's new Judge
Posted on 2/1/11 at 8:15 am to INFIDEL
Posted on 2/1/11 at 8:15 am to INFIDEL
I was just throwing that out there for a comparison. Some people doubt the 45lc because it's an old cowboy round and are unfamiliar with it, but everybody is familiar with the 45apc, which is a proven arse kicker. 45lc can be loaded to near 44mag performance. Not sure if the judge can handle that kind of load, but that sorta nullifies the "underpowered" argument against the judge. I'm completely neutral on the judge's usefulness past varmint and beer can extermination; just stirring the pot 
1
Posted on 2/1/11 at 8:22 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
meauxjeaux2
Meaux, if your boy wants it for playing around with and shooting snakes tell him it is good for that. If he is looking for soemthing for personal defense just tell him there are MANY other better options.
Posted on 2/1/11 at 8:26 am to USMCTiger03
quote:
I found the perfect one for you, Col!
Eta: Uh... wut?
This post was edited on 2/1/11 at 8:29 am
Posted on 2/1/11 at 8:26 am to rompus
quote:Have you even bothered to watch the 3" buckshot vids? Either way, you come off looking pretty bad here.
but with the pitiful amount of penetration the .410 shells have,
Posted on 2/1/11 at 8:29 am to INFIDEL
quote:
45 LC vs 45 acp is not a comparison I am familiar with. Probably b/c the LC is a antiquated round that all but died out a long time ago. Never looked at the numbers, for obvious reasons, so I can't argue the point
quote:
The biggest advantages of the .45 Colt are that it will drive the same weight bullet at the same speed as a .44 mag, but do it at less chamber pressure. The other being that with any bullet, and especially a cast SWC, it will make a larger permanent wound channel, all else being equal, ie; bullet weight, design etc. It does offer less felt recoil with equal loads due to the lower chamber pressures.
Posted on 2/1/11 at 8:29 am to AlxTgr
quote:
Have you even bothered to watch the 3" buckshot vids? Either way, you come off looking pretty bad here.
ya'll are making this penetration arguement like it's a pocket knife versus a .410. Well hell yea that .410 looks good. Why dont we compare penetration tests of the .410 to one of the "better" options people are suggesting, such as a 12 guage?
This post was edited on 2/1/11 at 8:31 am
Posted on 2/1/11 at 8:31 am to AlxTgr
quote:
It does offer less felt recoil with equal loads due to the lower chamber pressures.
less felt recoil than a .44 mag isn't saying much...lol
Posted on 2/1/11 at 8:32 am to gmrkr5
quote:Because no one here is comparing a pistol to a 12 gauge other than the logic deficient Judge haters. Do you have a disability you're not disclosing?
Well hell yea that .410 looks good. Why dont we compare penetration tests of the .410 to one of the "better" options people are suggesting, such as a 12 guage?
Posted on 2/1/11 at 8:35 am to AlxTgr
quote:
Because no one here is comparing a pistol to a 12 gauge other than the logic deficient Judge haters. Do you have a disability you're not disclosing?
Since it appears that a few of you think that anyone who disagrees with the Judge's affectivness as a home defense weapon, yes I have a disability.
and why would you quote me and leave out the first sentence? That is why I said "12 guage". shite 2 pages ago people were talking about baseballs and I cant bring up 12 guage??
This post was edited on 2/1/11 at 8:38 am
Posted on 2/1/11 at 8:36 am to gmrkr5
quote:
So you're saying that an untrained person in a dark house is going to hit the perp with that .45lc everytime and there is no need for a follow up shot?
That's they key, isn't it?
Is the argument here, that with a better weapon, that allows an untrained person to sling a lot more rounds down the hall ... we have a superior home defense plan?
I certainly hope it isn't. "Spray and pray" is just as irresponsible advice as anything else I've read in these forums.
Posted on 2/1/11 at 8:36 am to gmrkr5
quote:Thanks, that explains a lot. Good luck to you sir.
yes I have a disability
Posted on 2/1/11 at 8:38 am to coloradoBengal
quote:
That's they key, isn't it?
Is the argument here, that with a better weapon, that allows an untrained person to sling a lot more rounds down the hall ... we have a superior home defense plan?
I certainly hope it isn't. "Spray and pray" is just as irresponsible advice as anything else I've read in these forums.
First off HELL NO. Untrained is the number one problem here. Having a substandard home defense weapon is problem number 2. I would sure appreciate teh ability to fire a quick second shot if need be though.
Where have I ever advocated "spray and pray"?? Hell if that was my mentality I would tell all of you you're idiots and the first thing I'm grabbing in the middle of the night is my AK with a 40 rounder on it.
This post was edited on 2/1/11 at 8:43 am
Posted on 2/1/11 at 8:53 am to gmrkr5
I just think there might be a lot of apples to oranges comparisons going on here.
If we can assume that with proper training, that a person will know to chamber and clear a round in a shotgun or a semi auto pistol, and also be skilled at aiming those weapons in a stressful situation...then maybe we should extend that assumption, just a wee bit, to someone owning The Judge.
Also, I would be very interested to see if there has been any collected statistics on home owners who have "lost" a home defense encounter, because they didn't have "enough gun." Just saying.
If we can assume that with proper training, that a person will know to chamber and clear a round in a shotgun or a semi auto pistol, and also be skilled at aiming those weapons in a stressful situation...then maybe we should extend that assumption, just a wee bit, to someone owning The Judge.
Also, I would be very interested to see if there has been any collected statistics on home owners who have "lost" a home defense encounter, because they didn't have "enough gun." Just saying.
Posted on 2/1/11 at 9:01 am to coloradoBengal
quote:
I just think there might be a lot of apples to oranges comparisons going on here.
If we can assume that with proper training, that a person will know to chamber and clear a round in a shotgun or a semi auto pistol, and also be skilled at aiming those weapons in a stressful situation...then maybe we should extend that assumption, just a wee bit, to someone owning The Judge.
Also, I would be very interested to see if there has been any collected statistics on home owners who have "lost" a home defense encounter, because they didn't have "enough gun." Just saying.
I pretty much agree with all of that.
There were 2 links I posted in the last Judge thread.. One regarding a woman who actually shot someone with a Judge and they ran off and another where a home invader was shot with birdshot and most of the pellets didnt penetrate the denim clothes he was wearing. Dont think that one involved a Judge though. I'll have to find the links when I get to the office.
Here's one...
LINK
This post was edited on 2/1/11 at 9:05 am
Posted on 2/1/11 at 9:17 am to LafourcheTiger
quote:So it's not okay to read studies on it and the ammo it uses to form an opinion?
Unless you've fired the Judge and actually seen it's results first hand STFU.
quote:I think we all hope pointing any gun at an intruder would be effective. Unfortunately that's not always the case.
If this gun was pointed at you from within 10ft( in which most confrontations occur) you'd piss your pants.
quote:I believe the premise for home defense where the user may not be as well trained is the need for a followup shot or two. Expecting any handgun round to always immediately eliminate a threat with one shot is foolish given the many variables that can come into play.
If you hit your target with the 45 there is no need for a "follow up round" this is an excellent gun for lots of reasons.
quote:I have a .22 pistol that I would never rely on for home defense, do you want to volunteer to take a .22 round in the face?
You wanna volunteer to take a 410 buckshot round in the face??? No?? I didn't think so.
I don't think anyone is saying the Judge is shite, and would disagree with that. But we're not talking about hunting or football or anything else where a margin of error is allowable. We're talking about self/home defense and the discussion is centered on using the most effective gun/round possible to suit the circumstances.
And we can "what if" the possible scenarios all day long, but the bottom line is if you or your loved one is ever in that situation, you won't have any forewarning whether the intruder is a scared, weak loser just looking for a easy score or a 260 pound mantank with blood/drugs boiling in his brain who will attack until his dying breath.
Posted on 2/1/11 at 9:23 am to USMCTiger03
quote:
You wanna volunteer to take a 410 buckshot round in the face??? No?? I didn't think so.
I have a .22 pistol that I would never rely on for home defense, do you want to volunteer to take a .22 round in the face?
Oh please...
Posted on 2/1/11 at 9:25 am to coloradoBengal
quote:I don't think the realistic need for making 1 or 2 controlled followup shots is the same as "spray and pray".
"Spray and pray" is just as irresponsible advice as anything else I've read in these forums.
Posted on 2/1/11 at 9:29 am to AlxTgr
quote:What? The point (which I though was obvious) is that whether or not someone would volunteer to take a round to the face is not indicative of whether that round would be ideal for home defense.
quote:
You wanna volunteer to take a 410 buckshot round in the face??? No?? I didn't think so.
I have a .22 pistol that I would never rely on for home defense, do you want to volunteer to take a .22 round in the face?
Oh please...
Posted on 2/1/11 at 9:34 am to USMCTiger03
quote:Cool. I hated the time a paintball hit me on the cheekbone.
What? The point (which I though was obvious) is that whether or not someone would volunteer to take a round to the face is not indicative of whether that round would be ideal for home defense.
Posted on 2/1/11 at 9:37 am to USMCTiger03
What the marine said. The LC is probably an effective round. So what is it? Shot shells so the untrained may hit something or the LC to stop the perp? Guess you could reload depending on the circumstances.
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