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Started By
Message
First time gun buyer .22 or .380?
Posted on 7/1/20 at 7:54 am
Posted on 7/1/20 at 7:54 am
I’m looking to buy my first firearm. Primary use is training. I have no immediate plans to conceal carry and likely won’t until I get much much more comfortable with them and train more. I’m pretty set on either getting a 1911 or a PPK/S. I’ve always sort of admired these two guns and if I’m going to start getting into this I may as well get something that has an interesting history behind it that I like and then expand my collection from there if needed. I’ve found both of these models in pretty reasonable prices $600 or less each in their .22 variants but I know they also come in .380 with the colt also coming in even larger variants I believe. Is there any reason why a .22 would be a bad idea for a first time gun owner Concerned with self defense? I assume the bigger rounds will do more damage but I’m skeptical on the necessity and don’t want to fall in a trap of just buying the most powerful thing I can only to have it bite me in the arse down the road.
Thoughts?
ETA: changed primary purpose to training/starter gun. Eventually would love to have a more well rounded home defense arsenal but for now it’s really important to me to economically and effectively get used to owning and caring for a firearm responsibly and learn the ropes.
Thoughts?
ETA: changed primary purpose to training/starter gun. Eventually would love to have a more well rounded home defense arsenal but for now it’s really important to me to economically and effectively get used to owning and caring for a firearm responsibly and learn the ropes.
This post was edited on 7/1/20 at 11:04 am
18
Posted on 7/1/20 at 8:03 am to jlovel7
Will your crazed attacker be on PCP or not?
Posted on 7/1/20 at 8:04 am to jlovel7
1. Never consider a .22 unless, due to a medical condition, you can't handle the recoil of anything bigger. Rimfire cartridges are notoriously unreliable in semi-auto handguns.
2. All common handgun calibers are weal. So there's no need to go to the "really weak" calibers like a .380 There's a huge body of evidence to show that 9mm Luger is an effective handgun round (depending on shot placement).
3. There are a lot more elements to your query - good luck sorting through the dozens of different answers you're going to get.
2. All common handgun calibers are weal. So there's no need to go to the "really weak" calibers like a .380 There's a huge body of evidence to show that 9mm Luger is an effective handgun round (depending on shot placement).
3. There are a lot more elements to your query - good luck sorting through the dozens of different answers you're going to get.
Posted on 7/1/20 at 8:06 am to jlovel7
I would go to the range and rent a.22 to get familiar with shooting then rent a full size 9, (at least a 4 inch barrel) then buy a 9mm.
If I wanted a pistol.
If I wanted a pistol.
Posted on 7/1/20 at 8:09 am to jlovel7
22lr semi autos are notoriously unreliable. They are great for plinking and practice but I wouldn't want to stake my life on one. That's not to say they can't be reliable, I have 22LR pistols that have never had a malfunction but those are the exception not the rule. Some have required some gun smithing to make reliable. Not something the first time owner probably wants to get in too. Obviously any gun is better than no gun so buy what you feel comfortable with. If you do go 22LR I would suggest seaarching out and getting some CCI mini mags which gives you a bit more oomph and cycles the action more reliably.
This post was edited on 7/1/20 at 8:10 am
Posted on 7/1/20 at 8:15 am to jlovel7
Buy what you are comfortable with, but those are among last calibers I'd buy for defense. And I'd get the 22 over the 380. A 380 is not easy to shoot. If you want a pistol, try to find what you are comfortable shooting (i.e. I hate how a walther feels in my hand, it's my wife's favorite). Start with the 9mm and get the same platform in 22. Shoot both at the range, often- but the 22 allows you to plink every day and keep cost down (the wife.went thru $100 of 9 and 380 at range yesterday- would have been about $20 in .22) on the same platform.
Posted on 7/1/20 at 8:16 am to jlovel7
quote:
I assume the bigger rounds will do more damage but I’m skeptical on the necessity and don’t want to fall in a trap of just buying the most powerful thing I can only to have it bite me in the arse down the road.
What in the world are you talking about? I feel like you may be overcomplicating this decision.
Get a full size 9mm pistol and go to the range, learn to shoot.
Posted on 7/1/20 at 8:26 am to jlovel7
I hunt squirrels that average maybe two pounds with a .22. It would certainly kill a human, but I would not want that for self defense unless it was all I had
Posted on 7/1/20 at 8:30 am to jlovel7
quote:
I assume the bigger rounds will do more damage but I’m skeptical on the necessity and don’t want to fall in a trap of just buying the most powerful thing I can only to have it bite me in the arse down the road.
These are the smallest calibers you can buy you should look at the 9mm
Posted on 7/1/20 at 8:41 am to jlovel7
quote:
Is there any reason why a .22 would be a bad idea for a first time gun owner Concerned with self defense
For a child? Great round for 1st gun.
For home defense? Better than a baseball bat or a knife.
quote:
I assume the bigger rounds will do more damage but I’m skeptical on the necessity and don’t want to fall in a trap of just buying the most powerful thing I can only to have it bite me in the arse down the road.
I'm really trying to understand your thought process here but I'm failing.
How would a larger caliber "bite" you in the arse?
The 1911 was designed for use with the .45 acp. It has been adapted to use with several more calibers from .22lr to .50 AE
As to you being skeptical, in a life or death situation (that you will most likely never see) would you want have something that would be just ok?
This post was edited on 7/1/20 at 8:48 am
Posted on 7/1/20 at 8:48 am to jlovel7
I have a .380 and it fits perfect in my pockets.
—however—
With the mood out there, I feel terribly under-calibered, now.
P365 / g43 / shield / cm9 would be better if you can handle a 9mm.
—however—
With the mood out there, I feel terribly under-calibered, now.
P365 / g43 / shield / cm9 would be better if you can handle a 9mm.
Posted on 7/1/20 at 8:56 am to bbvdd
quote:
I'm really trying to understand your thought process here but I'm failing.
How would a larger caliber "bite" you in the arse?
I live in a small apartment Complex with other residents underneath me and across a hallway. I don’t want to buy anything that’s going to blast through multiple walls.
Posted on 7/1/20 at 8:57 am to jlovel7
quote:Then buy an AR in 5.56.
I don’t want to buy anything that’s going to blast through multiple walls.
Posted on 7/1/20 at 9:10 am to jlovel7
quote:
I live in a small apartment Complex with other residents underneath me and across a hallway. I don’t want to buy anything that’s going to blast through multiple walls.
A .22 will travel through multiple walls.
ETA: if you want something that will not over penetrate you need speed. Lots of speed that will cause the projectile to fragment. Rifle cartridge is the best way to achieve that.
This post was edited on 7/1/20 at 9:13 am
Posted on 7/1/20 at 9:16 am to jlovel7
My wife has bad pain/problems with her hands, we just got her a m&p ez .380.... she cannot rack my 9mm .
Posted on 7/1/20 at 9:21 am to jlovel7
Posted on 7/1/20 at 9:25 am to bbvdd
Yep, slow projectiles (and even more slow large projectiles) will move through more barriers.
If you are truly concerned about self defense and want a handgun, as others have said:
1. Go to a range and rent several different guns, most ranges have a LARGE selection of rental guns. Typically you can shoot as many as you want as long as you pay a single rental fee and buy their ammo.
2. After youve decided on a gun that fits your hand well, and you can manage, purchase it and immediately get training. Intro pistol classes can typically be found at the same range you bought the gun. Train, Train, Train...then get comfortable with the gun through dry fire practice.
3. Get a weapon light, most defensive encounters happen in the dark...target ID is critical
If you are truly concerned about self defense and want a handgun, as others have said:
1. Go to a range and rent several different guns, most ranges have a LARGE selection of rental guns. Typically you can shoot as many as you want as long as you pay a single rental fee and buy their ammo.
2. After youve decided on a gun that fits your hand well, and you can manage, purchase it and immediately get training. Intro pistol classes can typically be found at the same range you bought the gun. Train, Train, Train...then get comfortable with the gun through dry fire practice.
3. Get a weapon light, most defensive encounters happen in the dark...target ID is critical
Posted on 7/1/20 at 9:59 am to jlovel7
Get a 9mm or .45acp. A .22 handgun is useless if you're looking for self defense (just my opinion). If you're going to get a 1911, don't get it in .22 or.380. Get one in .45 (as God intended it to be) or in 9mm. Keep in mind that right now, 9mm is nearly impossible to find where as .45 is still very plentiful. Yes, 9mm is cheaper to shoot at the range compared to .45 and has more capacity but considering the current climate and availability of ammunition, get something that you can still find ammunition for. You can always get a 9mm down the road, especially if you're looking to CC in the future.
But if you want to go with a 9mm, search online and buy bulk box of ammunition as it is insanely hard to come by right now in brick and mortar stores.
If you want home defense, go with .45apc. I'd say also get a shotgun for home defense but since it's your first firearm, I'd wait on the shotgun. Again, just my opinion.
Best of luck on your first purchase. Make it a good and educated decision.
But if you want to go with a 9mm, search online and buy bulk box of ammunition as it is insanely hard to come by right now in brick and mortar stores.
If you want home defense, go with .45apc. I'd say also get a shotgun for home defense but since it's your first firearm, I'd wait on the shotgun. Again, just my opinion.
Best of luck on your first purchase. Make it a good and educated decision.
Posted on 7/1/20 at 10:15 am to jlovel7
quote:
I don’t want to buy anything that’s going to blast through multiple walls.
Anything you buy for standard home defense will penetrate multiple walls with varying amounts of energy. Your protection to reduce the probability that it has enough energy to kill if it passes through a wall is to hit your target and leave as much energy in the target as possible. That's where choosing the right gun and self-defense ammunition to make sure the weapons has little remaining energy to penetrate anything after passing through your target comes into play. PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE with that weapon is how you make sure you hit the target.
There is likely no magic round selection alone that will stop a human, but is incapable of punching through a little bit of sheetrock if you miss (except maybe frangible, but I don't have any experience with those bullets). Expanding handgun bullets will pass right through walls. .223/5.56 (FMJ or expanding) will pass right through walls. Shotguns? Through walls. If you hit your target before the wall, though, that math changes. Without the benefit of first passing through a bad guy, almost everything can and will kill after passing through multiple walls. It's never really good to be the first meat thing a bullet hits, even after the bullet goes through multiple walls.
Paul Harrell shoots through walls (and meat targets) instead of spouting things that "everyone knows is right".
This post was edited on 7/1/20 at 10:53 am
Posted on 7/1/20 at 10:21 am to jlovel7
If it's strictly for home defense and you aren't worried about conceal carry, I'm not sure why you've settled on .22 or .380.
As already mentioned, .22 semi auto handguns are not the most reliable. And .380 is designed to be used with small firearms for concealment purposes.
Since you are worried about bigger calibers, I'd try and find a full size 9mm like a Glock G17. A full size gun is going to cut down on felt recoil since it has more mass to help absorb more of the energy. It also has the advantage of holding way more rounds than any .380 gun I'm aware of. It's also just a much better round and like I said, it's not a large caliber round either. From 9mm, you go up to .40 S&W, .45 ACP, 357, etc.
So I would suggest taking a look around at a 9mm. It's honestly a much better round and with a full size gun, recoil is pretty close to any .380 pocket gun. And I just wouldn't consider a .22 handgun at all for home defense purposes. Although, either one is better than nothing at all. So, there's that.
As already mentioned, .22 semi auto handguns are not the most reliable. And .380 is designed to be used with small firearms for concealment purposes.
Since you are worried about bigger calibers, I'd try and find a full size 9mm like a Glock G17. A full size gun is going to cut down on felt recoil since it has more mass to help absorb more of the energy. It also has the advantage of holding way more rounds than any .380 gun I'm aware of. It's also just a much better round and like I said, it's not a large caliber round either. From 9mm, you go up to .40 S&W, .45 ACP, 357, etc.
So I would suggest taking a look around at a 9mm. It's honestly a much better round and with a full size gun, recoil is pretty close to any .380 pocket gun. And I just wouldn't consider a .22 handgun at all for home defense purposes. Although, either one is better than nothing at all. So, there's that.
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