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re: Video game testers attempt to organize a union, get laid off, cry shenanigans.
Posted on 3/3/23 at 10:59 am to Bronc
Posted on 3/3/23 at 10:59 am to Bronc
quote:
And yet three tries now and not a single piece of “evidence”
Its economic law.
Had you ever advanced beyond being some techie at best buy, you would have benefitted from both micro and macro.
Google "Elasticities of substitution." You're welcome.
1
Posted on 3/3/23 at 11:22 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Its economic law.
No, it is not. And considering you have failed to provide a single source of supporting evidence three times, and instead wildly contradicted what you claimed it said, your credibility on this subject is below zero.
quote:
Elasticities of substitution
Is a framework for understanding substitutability between any two pairs of aggregate inputs, all other things remaining equal.
Which literally we just spent 2 pages of me explaining to you this concept in broader terms.
If the skills of immigrants are complementary to the skills of the native workforce, then the elasticity of substitution will be low, and the two groups will not be in direct competition with each other.
If the skills of immigrants are close substitutes for the skills of the native workforce, then the elasticity of substitution will be high, and immigrants may be in direct competition with native workers. This can lead to downward pressure on wages and job opportunities for native workers.
Of course this is a one variable adjustment framework and the real world is not so easily controlled for or responsive due to lurking variables and other input and knock down factors.
Hence we go back to original link I gave to you, about how much of Americas immigration is complimentary and not substitutional.
quote:
An alternative view supported by much of the academic literature is that natives and immigrants largely take different types of jobs, potentially because they have different comparative advantages, even among less educated workers. If so, then the native wage response to a reduced supply of immigrant workers would not be large if it existed at all.
quote:
Economists typically measure the responsiveness of wages to immigrants using the wage elasticity of immigration—the percentage change in wages one can expect for a given percentage change in the quantity of immigrants.
quote:
Our research produced two broad results. First, when Borjas’s methods are extended a few years, the wage elasticity of immigration is -0.2 rather than -0.3 to -0.4. Second, Borjas’s assumption of perfect worker substitutability within cells cannot be correct as the wages of men and women both increased as women entered the workforce from 1960 to 2010. Empirical methods that relax the two assumptions described above likely lead to estimates that more accurately describe the impacts of immigration on native wages and that are either very small or zero
LINK
This post was edited on 3/3/23 at 11:26 am
Posted on 3/3/23 at 11:27 am to Bronc
quote:
Its economic law.
No, it is not.
It absolutely is.
We need less lowly skilled workers, not more. All we're doing is keeping wages low.
If you want higher wages on the lower end, you need a tighter labor pool, not a larger one
When labor becomes more costly, employers purchase less labor.This post was edited on 3/3/23 at 11:28 am
Posted on 3/3/23 at 11:36 am to Damone
quote:
I always laugh at people who immediately side with management over labor, despite the fact that they are undoubtedly closer to the latter than the former.
I always laugh at people so narrow-minded that they're incapable of viewing things from a perspective other than their own.
Posted on 3/3/23 at 11:48 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
We need less lowly skilled workers, not more. All we're doing is keeping wages low. If you want higher wages on the lower end, you need a tighter labor pool, not a larger one When labor becomes more costly, employers purchase less labor.
Again, this is an oversimplification that simply exposes your ignorance to the subject. And makes me question if you just found that term above in one of your frantic Google searches and thought it sounded smart.
You post about substitutability but seem wholly incapable of actually discerning what it means with regards to economic relationships.
In perfectly substitutional circumstance immigrant labor can and will have a negative effect on labor wages. Which you would have to assume for your statement above to work. But in a complimentary immigrant situation it has the opposite impact.
Low skilled complimentary immigration reduces slack, creates more efficiency, provides lower cost goods and services for natives, and has little to no effect on aggregate wages or native employment.
And the research we have on this is clear, most of the immigration is complimentary and not substitutional, and where the impact is felt it is not all that impactful. Single digit effects on wages within that industry.
And where three, yes three of YOUR sources draw the conclusion that the best way to deal
with the substitutional issue is to provide greater legal protections so as to equalize labor power and push wages up. ALL of the comprehensive solutions circle right back to the boot you like to lick so much: the employer
This post was edited on 3/3/23 at 11:50 am
Posted on 3/3/23 at 11:49 am to Bronc
quote:
There is a whole swath of the economy that works full time, sometimes 2+ jobs, and is still having to take in government assistance cause they don’t make enough to pay for basic necessities.
Advance in your career then
Posted on 3/3/23 at 11:52 am to The Next
I just don't support jobs being sent offshore so they can pay Andrei in romania 5 leus.
No matter how retarded it is or 'entry level' a job is a job and i'd rather people at least kinda be able to do something to participate or even contribute in a working society vs sitting on their arse at home collecting gubment moneys or being out doing hoodrat shite with their friends.
No matter how much of a retarded monkey job it is, I'd still rather it be done here, and by Americans.
And honestly we need more jobs like that, the world needs ditch diggers etc. We have a lot of dumb arse people and we need to keep their asses busy.
No matter how retarded it is or 'entry level' a job is a job and i'd rather people at least kinda be able to do something to participate or even contribute in a working society vs sitting on their arse at home collecting gubment moneys or being out doing hoodrat shite with their friends.
No matter how much of a retarded monkey job it is, I'd still rather it be done here, and by Americans.
And honestly we need more jobs like that, the world needs ditch diggers etc. We have a lot of dumb arse people and we need to keep their asses busy.
This post was edited on 3/3/23 at 11:53 am
Posted on 3/3/23 at 11:53 am to Bronc
quote:
Then going on to say how non-citizens often pay taxes they don’t get to take out of and therefore serve as a one way fund for entitlement users that this conversation started around.
Federally, they drain coffers when their US-born offspring qualify for government assistance due to the insanity of birthright citizenship. Every SNAP dollar that goes toward baby Pedro is a dollar Papa Pedro doesn't have to spend on him. If they're getting paid in cash, they aren't paying Federal income tax at all but their child-rearing burden is alleviated by those that do.
Locally, they drain coffers to an even greater extent when schools are required to give access to illegals along with medical and housing vouchers.
This post was edited on 3/3/23 at 12:02 pm
Posted on 3/3/23 at 11:58 am to Bronc
quote:
How does this board feel about spending lots of money on entitlements?
Cause there is this disconnect with some people on here that love to relish in low-level workers being told to shut up and lick the boot of billion-dollar corporations that want to treat and pay their employees as little as possible, then whine when we spend so much money on entitlements.
This isn't a legitimate argument.
Welfare programs won't just go away if salaries and benefits are raised. This will just raise the allowable threshold to receive benefits. These programs are based off a belief in protecting a certain % of the population, not a population at a certain level (even though that's how the thresholds are written)
Posted on 3/3/23 at 12:02 pm to Bronc
quote:
Again, this is an oversimplification that simply exposes your ignorance to the subject.
No, you don't even understand the basics of what people are trying to tell you. Its like another language to you.
You need an ample supply of jobs and a restricted supply of workers if you want low wage jobs to climb.
Low wage workers are already competing against automation. You must really hate them.
This post was edited on 3/3/23 at 12:05 pm
Posted on 3/3/23 at 12:04 pm to USMCguy121
quote:
the world needs ditch diggers etc
Posted on 3/3/23 at 12:14 pm to Morgus
quote:
Federally, they drain coffers when their naturalized offspring qualify for government assistance due to the insanity of birthright citizenship. Every SNAP dollar that goes toward baby Pedro is a dollar Papa Pedro doesn't have to spend on him. Locally, they drain coffers to an even greater extent when schools are required to give access to illegals along with medical and housing vouchers.
Go back and read the CBO report Roger posted thinking it proved something it didn’t, the conclusion of the report was pretty clear in that first generation immigrant labor pays into the system more than they ever take out for them or their family. And that the long run economic benefit is positive including on wages. Studies also show children of migrants have higher educational and earning attainment on average and the result is they too become net positive contributors. So again, not this simple narrative nativists love to paint with.
The goal of America should be to use immigration when it is economically complimentary in both low and high skill jobs, and look to build incentives and punish employer against substitutional immigration,
Posted on 3/3/23 at 12:20 pm to RogerTheShrubber
I’ll give a chance for you to grasp why this statement:
quote:
Low wage workers are already competing against automation. You must really hate them.
immediately undercut the prior statement:
quote:
You need an ample supply of jobs and a restricted supply of workers if you want low wage jobs to climb.
You are truly terrible at this
In one sentence showing why the simplistic supply/demand logic you can’t think beyond begins to fall apart with the introduction of one new variable
Go tie up some boats or something and think on it
Posted on 3/3/23 at 12:33 pm to Bronc
quote:both of you are terrible at this
You are truly terrible at this
Posted on 3/3/23 at 12:36 pm to USMCguy121
quote:
I just don't support jobs being sent offshore so they can pay Andrei in romania 5 leus.
I do.
Its a global economy. We produce what we are the most efficient at producing, if labor is more efficient elsewhere in a global economy, you would be dumb not to jump on it.
The future is automation, and the sooner we get there the better. Propping up inefficient labor doesn't help
Posted on 3/3/23 at 12:40 pm to Bronc
quote:
Game testing, for instance, is a critical component of a gaming company's success. It requires a lot of hours, and a decent amount of manpower over an extended and ongoing period of time. A single shitty, buggy game can literally kill a company or division.
Of all the dumb takes in this thread, this may be the dumbest
Posted on 3/3/23 at 12:41 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
Of all the dumb takes in this thread, this may be the dumbest
Consider the source.
Posted on 3/3/23 at 12:42 pm to Bronc
The quote which I responded to mentioned "non-citizens." The CBO report deals with "immigrants" and the "foreign-born." Surely I don't need to make the distinction here between the category of "immigrants" and the category of "non-citizens." Elon Musk is an immigrant. And a citizen.
Furthermore, the CBO report takes into account only federal burden (again not focusing on non-citizens) while the cost to States and municipalities which, as I said and is indisputable, shares the overwhelming proportion of the conomic burden for the benefits received by non-citizens. Indeed, you completely ignored that part of my response which was probably not an accident.
Furthermore, the CBO report takes into account only federal burden (again not focusing on non-citizens) while the cost to States and municipalities which, as I said and is indisputable, shares the overwhelming proportion of the conomic burden for the benefits received by non-citizens. Indeed, you completely ignored that part of my response which was probably not an accident.
Posted on 3/3/23 at 12:44 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Its a global economy. We produce what we are the most efficient at producing, if labor is more efficient elsewhere in a global economy, you would be dumb not to jump on it. The future is automation, and the sooner we get there the better. Propping up inefficient labor doesn't help
So we literally circle right back to my original point that you began melting over: suppressed wages/unemployment = more entitlement usage
If you are ok with that, fine, a lot of futurists that want to see a Wall-E world, but don’t spend pages crying about immigrants when you then turn around and say frick labor, maximize employer efficiency at all costs, go ahead and offshore jobs, automate everything, open borders, import any and everything you can from hyper low-wage undeveloped countries.
This post was edited on 3/3/23 at 12:46 pm
Posted on 3/3/23 at 12:46 pm to hawgfaninc
quote:
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