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re: SSC’s Tuatara is the fastest car in the world with 331mph top speed
Posted on 10/27/20 at 8:53 pm to Obtuse1
Posted on 10/27/20 at 8:53 pm to Obtuse1
Agreed that with there needs to be some more validation. And looks like its starting to roll in.
Controversy Erupts Over "Faked" World’s Fastest Car Speed Record, SSC Claps Back
Glad to see we’re starting to get independent reviews.
Controversy Erupts Over "Faked" World’s Fastest Car Speed Record, SSC Claps Back
quote:
That brings us to today's news. Dewetron, a GPS data analysis company with a fair bit of experience in validating top speed record runs, has gone over the SSC Tuatara's data and claims its 316.11-mph record run is indeed valid. The company says its equipment has been used to confirm four out of the five previous record runs before the Tuatara's, including for the Ultimate Aero. We haven't independently verified the data, but this is a company with skin in the game, and professionals whose reputations are on the line. It'll take more than a bit of YouTube sleuthing to second-guess their GPS data—and, we should mention, GPS systems are more than accurate enough to precisely verify the speeds of this run. And then, of course, Guinness World Records will examine the data and perhaps certify it as a valid world record.
Glad to see we’re starting to get independent reviews.
1
Posted on 10/27/20 at 9:18 pm to billjamin
quote:
Glad to see we’re starting to get independent reviews.
I don't see it. Dewetron wasn't there and there is no proof there wasn't a failure in their equipment. Until SSC explains the discrepancies in the video I am on the bullshite side. That video is not from a 300+ run and if you lie to me once you have a big mountain to climb to prove you aren't lying again. If they lied to cover up the wind bucking they are still liers.
Posted on 10/27/20 at 9:27 pm to Obtuse1
I don’t really put it on SSC since they didn’t make the video. BBC did. If they validate the GPS that’s good enough for me. I don’t need a video showing a speedo that’s going to be wrong and only reads to 300 anyway. I’d imagine they had the right equipment to submit to Guinness and didn’t think a YouTube video and Garmin would get them there.
If they really did frick with this the company is over and it’s the worlds stupidest move because every order will get cancelled.
If they really did frick with this the company is over and it’s the worlds stupidest move because every order will get cancelled.
Posted on 10/28/20 at 12:37 pm to billjamin
Statement from Dewetron:
“Despite the information published on the website of SSC North America as well as on several related and non-related YouTube channels, Dewetron did not validate any data from world record attempts or preceding tests. Nobody of [sic] Dewetron’s employees was present during the test drive or involved in the associated preparations.
“Since the results of measurement data highly rely on the right setup, on the regular calibration of the systems and sensors in use as well as on many other parameters, we are not able to guarantee the accuracy or correctness of the outcome. As of this moment, Dewetron did not receive the measurement file of the test drive”
SSC has really fricked themselves in my eyes. They have had days now to explain the video discrepancy and every second they wait is veracity they lose. At this point, it is beyond irrelevant who put out the video they KNOW there is an issue out there, if it wasn't faked they have the explanation or if there was just a innocent calibration issues a group of engineers that can build a 300 mph car can certainly figure out what went wrong.
Carthrottle
The article you posted above made Motor Trend look REALLY bad, they posted something from SSC without verifying it with Dewetron and ended with "case close". Now it has been edited with the new information that the video was wrong.
IMO the only thing SSC can do is rerun the Vmax test with better protocols in place. I understand they didn't think the video was released as verification but they have to be naive to think it wouldn't be. It has become standard practice to support the legitimacy of 'Ring times with solid video with data overlays and at this point no one is accepting the validity of a 'Ring run on the manufacturer's word not Porsche, not Lamborghini not CHevrolet etc. And outside some niggling tire choice questions in the past these manufacturers have been putting out false information or being party to it and they still get scrutinized.
SSC needs to quit digging and prove the car can run as fast as they say. These cars will be sold (or not) on Vmax, they aren't scrambling to get 'Ring times.
“Despite the information published on the website of SSC North America as well as on several related and non-related YouTube channels, Dewetron did not validate any data from world record attempts or preceding tests. Nobody of [sic] Dewetron’s employees was present during the test drive or involved in the associated preparations.
“Since the results of measurement data highly rely on the right setup, on the regular calibration of the systems and sensors in use as well as on many other parameters, we are not able to guarantee the accuracy or correctness of the outcome. As of this moment, Dewetron did not receive the measurement file of the test drive”
SSC has really fricked themselves in my eyes. They have had days now to explain the video discrepancy and every second they wait is veracity they lose. At this point, it is beyond irrelevant who put out the video they KNOW there is an issue out there, if it wasn't faked they have the explanation or if there was just a innocent calibration issues a group of engineers that can build a 300 mph car can certainly figure out what went wrong.
Carthrottle
The article you posted above made Motor Trend look REALLY bad, they posted something from SSC without verifying it with Dewetron and ended with "case close". Now it has been edited with the new information that the video was wrong.
IMO the only thing SSC can do is rerun the Vmax test with better protocols in place. I understand they didn't think the video was released as verification but they have to be naive to think it wouldn't be. It has become standard practice to support the legitimacy of 'Ring times with solid video with data overlays and at this point no one is accepting the validity of a 'Ring run on the manufacturer's word not Porsche, not Lamborghini not CHevrolet etc. And outside some niggling tire choice questions in the past these manufacturers have been putting out false information or being party to it and they still get scrutinized.
SSC needs to quit digging and prove the car can run as fast as they say. These cars will be sold (or not) on Vmax, they aren't scrambling to get 'Ring times.
Posted on 10/28/20 at 12:48 pm to Obtuse1
Holy shite. I was willing to cut them some slack on the vid because I figured BBC/TG was only interested in production value. I also figured there would be some validated telemetry released from GPS and possibly Motec. I saw a statement from Jerod indicating that not only had Dewetron validated the data (it even included the satellite connectivity quantity and strength) but that it indicated Dewetron worked with them and provided the equipment. I also probably gave Motortrend too much credit for making sure they weren't posting bogus info.
SSC is fricked if they don't get ahead of this right away. I just texted a buddy who already plunked down cash on one to see if he's cancelling his order because of all this.
SSC is fricked if they don't get ahead of this right away. I just texted a buddy who already plunked down cash on one to see if he's cancelling his order because of all this.
This post was edited on 10/28/20 at 1:06 pm
Posted on 10/28/20 at 7:39 pm to jts1207
Posted on 10/29/20 at 6:40 pm to jts1207
quote:
LINK
Maybe not
That's what we have been discussing.
I was able to find the frontal area for the Tuatara and I was about 10% high on my guess, it is only 18 ft^2 vs the 19.75 ft^2 I used in my power balance equation I also found their Cd number @300 mph vs static which eliminates a lot of my guesswork in the formula especially related to the impact of the tires and suspension. Reworking with more accurate numbers I am getting drag limited Vmax just over 320 mph. As I stated before with good figures I can usually get within 1-2% of Vmax for a drag limited car, especially with the luxury of a dynamic Cd at near the Vmax. So a 2% upper window on my number would be 326.4 mph so I find the 331 absolutely in the realm of possibility because I don't have a chassis dyno number for THAT car at the Nevada road's DA at the time plus a whole lot more of the granular variable data.
I think the car very well may be able to do a two-way run 331 and it very well may have done it but they haven't provided proof to the public that satisfies me. Again every second that SSC doesn't lay out an explanation for all the discrepancies makes me more skeptical. Personally, if I was SSC I would do another run.
Interesting to me Bugatti debuted their new track-only car* the day after all this hit. 1240kg 1850hp 0-500kpm (340mph) in 20.16 seconds (yes I typed that right) and 0-500-0 in 33.62 sec Track only or not the Bolide is a monster and all I want for Xmas is a 'Ring time cause Santa doesn't love me enough to get me the car.
* I know this is a track-only car but unless they do what Ferrari did with the FXX and Bugatti allows actual possession of the cars they will be running around on the streets in the UAE... because they can.
Posted on 10/29/20 at 6:53 pm to Obtuse1
Interesting about the Bugatti. The guy I mentioned who is still tentatively buying a Tuatara has 2 challenge cars and a few other race only models. I wonder if he’ll add one of those to his list.
Posted on 10/29/20 at 6:55 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
(340mph) in 20.16 seconds
Jesus. At what point do we hit "that's fast enough"?
Posted on 10/29/20 at 7:58 pm to LegendInMyMind
quote:
Jesus. At what point do we hit "that's fast enough"?
When the G forces make you pass out.
Posted on 10/30/20 at 10:34 pm to billjamin
Posted on 10/31/20 at 8:19 am to billjamin
quote:i’m sure this car is flex fuel that will adjust the tune to the ethanol content. E70 will make as nearly as much power as E85 unless you’re on that bleeding edge of power. There is a bit more safety in higher content too. This was my experience running 1400 whp in my GTR. I had a motec before flex fuel and it was a pain. I could run E80-90 safely. Id generally buy drums of E98 and mix it down myself.
The reason I always wonder is because it’s become cool among boutique manufacturers to quote E85 numbers rather than C10, 16 or something because people see E85 and think they can get it at Kroger (which is actually where I buy mine most of the time). But the reality is they’re producing those numbers on what’s essentially race gas. It’s really just a marketing tactic in my opinion.
Posted on 10/31/20 at 9:38 am to Sasquatch Smash
Baby Godzilla
Posted on 10/31/20 at 7:06 pm to dagrippa
shmee had just put up another video which has the sound analysis data regarding the gear ratios. This type of data CAN be very accurate and was used a lot back in the unlimited RPM days in F1 to "spy" on other teams.
I am 50/50 now on whether Shelby actually thought they ran the two way 331 and I am being generous. This doesn't matter much now since Shelby has acknowledged the run is basically useless and it has to be rerun. I think it will run over 300 but I am not sure about 331.
YT
I am 50/50 now on whether Shelby actually thought they ran the two way 331 and I am being generous. This doesn't matter much now since Shelby has acknowledged the run is basically useless and it has to be rerun. I think it will run over 300 but I am not sure about 331.
YT
Posted on 12/24/20 at 7:59 pm to Obtuse1
The SSC Tuatara tried a second Vmax run this time with the owner of car #1 behind the wheel. This took place in FL.
Heat soak issues and never made it over 250mph and ate some spark plugs. Admittedly the heat is mainly due to the testing protocols but it makes SSC look rather amateurish. IMO it doesn't inspire confidence in a company designing and building a car that is supposed to run 300mph. Plus I like car performance metrics to be based on testing prior to taking money vs what it should do on paper.
Not looking good for SSC.
In my opinion, anyone that sat around with an order in on a SSC while Gordon Murray was selling out the T.50 should be kicking themselves. Sure it won't run 300 mph but the T.50 is one of the most incredible road cars ever built with arguably the best engine ever put in a road-going car and will appreciate like a rocket over the years. Murray simply knows how to build a car whether for the street or the F1 track.
Links to second run info
Autoblog
YT Robert Mitchell the only 3rd party witness @ the second run
I still think it can run 300 but it seems to take all the stars aligning to do it.
Heat soak issues and never made it over 250mph and ate some spark plugs. Admittedly the heat is mainly due to the testing protocols but it makes SSC look rather amateurish. IMO it doesn't inspire confidence in a company designing and building a car that is supposed to run 300mph. Plus I like car performance metrics to be based on testing prior to taking money vs what it should do on paper.
Not looking good for SSC.
In my opinion, anyone that sat around with an order in on a SSC while Gordon Murray was selling out the T.50 should be kicking themselves. Sure it won't run 300 mph but the T.50 is one of the most incredible road cars ever built with arguably the best engine ever put in a road-going car and will appreciate like a rocket over the years. Murray simply knows how to build a car whether for the street or the F1 track.
Links to second run info
Autoblog
YT Robert Mitchell the only 3rd party witness @ the second run
I still think it can run 300 but it seems to take all the stars aligning to do it.
Posted on 12/24/20 at 9:06 pm to Obtuse1
quote:Being a mac F1 owner Dan Heard in Baton Rouge is supposed to get one of the first T50.
T.50 is one of the most incredible road cars ever built with arguably the best engine ever put in a road-going car and will appreciate like a rocket over the years. Murray simply knows how to build a car whether for the street or the F1 track.
Posted on 1/27/21 at 7:40 pm to Obtuse1
On SSC's third try the Tuatara set a new world record @ 282.9 mph in a two-way run. This makes it the top speed for a "production" car beating the 277.9 mph set by the Koenigsegg Agera RS in 2017.
This is still a far cry from the 316mph they claimed earlier but more in line with reality... and verified. The car seems to have more in it for various reasons and it appears 300 might be in the cards but unlikely they will hit 316 two ways unless the car is changed in some significant way.
Shmee150 on Youtube
This is still a far cry from the 316mph they claimed earlier but more in line with reality... and verified. The car seems to have more in it for various reasons and it appears 300 might be in the cards but unlikely they will hit 316 two ways unless the car is changed in some significant way.
Shmee150 on Youtube
Posted on 1/27/21 at 7:48 pm to Obtuse1
Good for them! Though I feel the car’s reputation is already tarnished.
Posted on 1/27/21 at 7:50 pm to SomethingLikeA
quote:
the 0-60 was way slower than I expected
Likely would have blown the tread off the tires going hammer down..
Posted on 1/27/21 at 7:51 pm to NewIberiaHaircut
quote:
Though I feel the car’s reputation is already tarnished.
Falling that far short is not a good look.
Congrats to them though for making it.
For unrelated reasons I want to punch schmee in the face. Just seems satisfying.
This post was edited on 1/27/21 at 7:53 pm
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