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Started By
Message
re: Southern Baptist Convention: IVF is a sin
Posted on 6/13/24 at 10:18 am to iwyLSUiwy
Posted on 6/13/24 at 10:18 am to iwyLSUiwy
quote:I have about a 1000 dollar bill a year that says we are sin free if this is the case. My Catholic wife will not hear of not keeping them in the cryo chamber.
What if a couple freezes the two or so embryos they don't use and plan to use them in the future. Did that couple sin by using IVF but not killing embryos?
1
Posted on 6/13/24 at 10:19 am to tigerfoot
quote:There's a difference between sorting and promoting. Here's one. I know almost nothing about IVF. Have you seen me say anything about IVF? You have not.
This is a major issue nowadays. We seem to think we can form an opinion on anything, regardless of being underexposed or ignorant of the vast majority of things going on in the world. You should be neutral in things you have little experience or knowledge of.
But I can say this. IVF itself is scientific. And the value judgement of whether IVF is right or wrong is religious.
Posted on 6/13/24 at 10:20 am to low end
quote:Try to grow up a bit.
You really shouldn't lump everyone in with yourself.
Posted on 6/13/24 at 10:20 am to bayoubengals88
quote:
And the value judgement of whether IVF is right or wrong is religious.
Saying it over and over doesn't make it true.
Posted on 6/13/24 at 10:22 am to tigerfoot
quote:
My Catholic wife will not hear of not keeping them in the cryo chamber.
I just can’t really wrap my head around remaining catholic if you have done ivf.
By their doctrine, you are going to hell. I’m assuming you and your wife are unrepentant about your choice to go through ivf. According to the church, you and your wife are hell bound.
Posted on 6/13/24 at 10:23 am to bayoubengals88
quote:
What thinkers do you admire?
you... i admire you
Posted on 6/13/24 at 10:24 am to low end
quote:This is not the only way to be good. Making a value judgement is the only way to determine what is good. That is an intrinsically religious process. Logic and reason fall short here. As soon as you reason your way into what is good then you are on a religious trajectory.
Only if you think the only way to be good or moral is to follow a religion.
It's not a scientific journey, and it's not an amoral journey. It's a moral journey and therefore, a religious journey.
Morals are not amoral and morals are not scientific.
Posted on 6/13/24 at 10:25 am to low end
quote:I continue to wait for an alternative.
Saying it over and over doesn't make it true.
Posted on 6/13/24 at 10:26 am to bayoubengals88
quote:
You either grow up in the church, believing church things,
not always.... I was a born again Christian, and believed in the whole 9 yards...
that was then... I don't believe that anymore... doesn't mean I go out and try to break all the commandments, laws, rules, etc... just means I don't accept the religious beliefs at face value anymore, therefore, that isn't part of my life anymore... it is what it is
Posted on 6/13/24 at 10:27 am to chRxis
quote:
you... i admire you
Posted on 6/13/24 at 10:27 am to bayoubengals88
quote:When do you draw the line. One egg, one sperrn fertilized outside the body, watched for a few days, then implanted into a woman and a baby is born. Is that wrong? Why? What about 2 and twins? Two and one miscarries? What about two and both miscarry? What about 4 and put in after frozen 2 implanted each time, one child each results? Did the religous leaders have a position on artificial insemination. Hell, what about standing on your head after sex like in the 50s?
And the value judgement of whether IVF is right or wrong is religious.
quote:The whole judge not part skips over many heads. It seems you base your world views off of it.
value judgement of whether IVF is right or wrong is religious.
Posted on 6/13/24 at 10:28 am to bayoubengals88
quote:
morals are not scientific.
ahh... but they are also not exclusively religious... therein lies the rub
Posted on 6/13/24 at 10:28 am to chRxis
quote:Yeah, I don't blame you for leaving this kind of talk.
I was a born again Christian
Posted on 6/13/24 at 10:29 am to bayoubengals88
quote:
It's a moral journey and therefore, a religious journey.
I agree its a moral journey, but remain confused on why that is by necessity a religious one?
Posted on 6/13/24 at 10:29 am to bayoubengals88
quote:
Making a value judgement is the only way to determine what is good.
If I get a good grade on a test, that is good because it means that I know the material well enough to recall and apply it. It's also good because it will increase or bolster my overall grade. There is no religious aspect in either of those determinations.
If YOU are unable to decide whether something is good or not without the basis of religion, then it's no wonder you eschew logic and reason.
You simply don't understand it.
Posted on 6/13/24 at 10:30 am to chRxis
quote:Ok Shakespeare, does truth exist?
ahh... but they are also not exclusively religious... therein lies the rub
Posted on 6/13/24 at 10:31 am to JohnnyKilroy
quote:Well, the church is full of shite. I happen to think the Grace bestowed by Jesus covers all sins. Yes, this covers the big ones too, like rape, like theft...etc.
I’m assuming you and your wife are unrepentant about your choice to go through ivf. According to the church, you and your wife are hell bound.
BETA Page
Posted on 6/13/24 at 10:33 am to bayoubengals88
quote:
does truth exist?
yes, it does
Posted on 6/13/24 at 10:34 am to StrongOffer
quote:
So it's ok for non-religious people to vote in a way that shapes to country according to their worldview, but it's not ok for religious people to do the same? That's how we got to where we are in this country, the suppression of Christian values.
There is nothing forcing you to utilize IVF. Not having a law that bans IVF doesn't disrupt your worldview.
Again, religion has no place in those decisions. Government needs to stay out of consenting adult's bedrooms.
This post was edited on 6/13/24 at 10:40 am
Posted on 6/13/24 at 10:35 am to low end
quote:Actualy, it is religious. It centers around the discussion of truth. If there is no such thing as truth then you are right, but then the test would be pointless.
If I get a good grade on a test, that is good because it means that I know the material well enough to recall and apply it. It's also good because it will increase or bolster my overall grade. There is no religious aspect in either of those determinations.
The pursuit of truth itself is a religous pursuit as well as a scientific one. What is the goal of Science? The discovery of truth. How far can we extend that? Well, probably to the origins of the universe or to the meaning of life itself. The crossover then occurs when physics turns into metaphysics, which is then a purely religious endeavour.
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