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re: Real bad condo collapse in Surfside, FL
Posted on 6/29/21 at 2:21 pm to LSUFanHouston
Posted on 6/29/21 at 2:21 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
We don't ever do any preventive maintenance, and we have to wait until the shite gets real bad before we try to fix anything.
I’m in the Destin area and know of multiple HOA’s that have done $20,000+ per unit assessments/ projects in the past year. This isn’t abnormal at all. Now these are $1 mil or more units and while it’s not normal or routine, it happens.
How often does one replace a roof, AC, siding, etc. on a $400,000 house that’s a $10,000 or more project?
It’s not fair to assume that owning a condo is more expensive then a single family home. It can be cheaper and it could be more, lots of variables.
1
Posted on 6/29/21 at 3:42 pm to ShaneTheMaster
It’s almost like someone crashed into one of the pilings in the parking garage.
It’s possible someone was pulling into the parking garage when the pool gave way. That would freak anyone out and I could easily seeing them accelerate until something stopped them… like a already compromised support column.
It’s possible someone was pulling into the parking garage when the pool gave way. That would freak anyone out and I could easily seeing them accelerate until something stopped them… like a already compromised support column.
Posted on 6/29/21 at 5:03 pm to When in Rome
See the $15MM cost breakdown from 2018 in the Daily Mail article.
Hind-sight being 20/20, it looks like structural and misc repairs to the pool deck + g.c. & engineering fees was around a million dollars.
I guess nobody thought to break that out separate and bid it out.
What probably froze the condo board from taking action was the $6MM lick to upgrade the balcony and railings.
Decorative aluminum railings with a powder-coat, that meet current code, are extraordinary expensive.
New pavers & planters could have waited.
Hind-sight being 20/20, it looks like structural and misc repairs to the pool deck + g.c. & engineering fees was around a million dollars.
I guess nobody thought to break that out separate and bid it out.
What probably froze the condo board from taking action was the $6MM lick to upgrade the balcony and railings.
Decorative aluminum railings with a powder-coat, that meet current code, are extraordinary expensive.
New pavers & planters could have waited.
This post was edited on 6/29/21 at 5:05 pm
Posted on 6/29/21 at 5:15 pm to WestSideTiger
quote:
What each owner owed: $80,000-$336,000 depending on apartment size Owners were given until July 1 to decide how to pay. The work bids were due to end on June 1 but bids were still being taken for the concrete project How to pay Lump sum or in monthly installments of $500 or more for 15 years
Just curious what happens when owners don’t have a spare $80,000 to $336,000 or $500+ a month over 15 years lying around. Where does the money come from? Does the “hoa” take on debt and then lien the units? Is there a provision where they can force a sale or auction of the unit?
Posted on 6/29/21 at 5:20 pm to baldona
quote:
How often does one replace a roof, AC, siding, etc. on a $400,000 house that’s a $10,000 or more project?
I would say that is fairly typical, my house is work $409-500k, new roof 8 years ago was $15k, last AC unit replacement was $12k
Posted on 6/29/21 at 5:27 pm to eitek1
quote:
It’s possible someone was pulling into the parking garage when the pool gave way. That would freak anyone out and I could easily seeing them accelerate until something stopped them… like a already compromised support column.
We inspect a decent amount of parking garages and they all have damage throughout them from being hit by vehicles. It's usually not an issue but if it doesn't get patched it will cause structural problems.
Posted on 6/29/21 at 5:52 pm to junkfunky
Posted on 6/29/21 at 6:45 pm to When in Rome
quote:
Engineering News Record
More interesting speculation to peruse, with the non-surprising conclusion that it will take a while to sort out what exactly happened:
This is the best write up I've seen so far. Even the couple things I would disagree with are plausible.
I also am glad to see I'm not the only one still thinking top-down (in an unseen location) is a contender for the starting point.
Posted on 6/29/21 at 8:51 pm to Jack Bauers HnK
quote:
Just curious what happens when owners don’t have a spare $80,000 to $336,000 or $500+ a month over 15 years lying around. Where does the money come from? Does the “hoa” take on debt and then lien the units? Is there a provision where they can force a sale or auction of the unit?
Would probably depend on the bylaws.
In Florida an HOA can foreclose on the unit but that only clears out lower claims on the unit (owner, tenant) and leaves mortgages intact.
Posted on 6/29/21 at 8:55 pm to Bestbank Tiger
In-laws own units in a beach front building that had damage from Michael, and was off the rental market for over a year. Contractors working on roof fricked up and work had to be fixed, and the management company was dumped by the board, and ultimately owners were hit with a huge assessment. Many people there are retirees, I can't imagine how everyone on a fixed income could just come up with cash like that.
Posted on 6/29/21 at 8:57 pm to rt3
quote:I am about 10 mins in. Those first few mins were pretty intense. I admire how calm and composed they all are; I know it’s their job and training, but they’re still human beings. Hats off to them.
Surfside, FL by rt3
YouTube - Miami-Dade Fire Rescue radio traffic from collapse
Posted on 6/29/21 at 9:02 pm to When in Rome
quote:
I am about 10 mins in. Those first few mins were pretty intense. I admire how calm and composed they all are; I know it’s their job and training, but they’re still human beings. Hats off to them.
there's an almost immediate comparison to the World Trade Center
and hearing the call of a MCI (mass casualty incident) level 5 is chilling
Posted on 6/29/21 at 9:22 pm to East Coast Band
quote:
There's probably a dozen buildings within a 10 block radius of that building that have similar concrete deterioration and exposed rebar.
I doubt it. That kind of exposure will eventually lead to building collapse. It’s not if; it’s when.
Go to Cuba if you want to see it. The maintenance stopped in 1959, and the buildings are collapsing now. About 10% (just my guess from driving down the street) have collapsed. The rest have damage similar to that in the pictures above.
Once the steel rots the concrete will fall apart like wet sand with just a little tension.
This post was edited on 6/29/21 at 9:24 pm
Posted on 6/29/21 at 9:32 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
I have a feeling we are going to see more stuff like this in the future unless we change the way we think about stuff.
We have seen plenty of this in the past; we’ll surely see plenty in the future. But we are getting better about this, not worse. Design and maintenance/inspection are all getting better.
Posted on 6/30/21 at 12:02 pm to Penrod
Four more bodies recovered. I am curious when people will start serving jail time for issues like this. We have codes for a reason.
Posted on 6/30/21 at 12:08 pm to Penrod
quote:
We have seen plenty of this in the past; we’ll surely see plenty in the future. But we are getting better about this, not worse. Design and maintenance/inspection are all getting better.
Perhaps, but the question I have is how many condo associations have deferred regular maintenance to avoid large assessments. And are there enough local laws/regulations that oversee these boards?
Posted on 6/30/21 at 12:35 pm to AUCE05
I bet that building inspector from a couple of years ago is about to have a bad time, but I would also bet a lot of the architects, engineers, contractors, etc are probably either very old or already in the ground. At least the ones that would hold any real liability, and even then, they are covered by E and O.
Posted on 6/30/21 at 2:09 pm to the4thgen
The owners were informed of major structural issues in 2018. Problem is there is no mechanism in place to make them react. They were gearing up for their 40-year recert application.
Posted on 6/30/21 at 2:27 pm to GCTiger11
More new building and inspection codes will come out of this than Hurricane Andrew.
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