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Started By
Message
re: Police released video of the fatal shooting of unarmed black man in Oklahoma
Posted on 9/20/16 at 4:03 pm to Sao
Posted on 9/20/16 at 4:03 pm to Sao
quote:
You'll convince a few he was tazed
I said...
quote:
4. cops taser the man (not sure if this is fact)
quote:
but they didn't taze him prior to being shot
you state this as it being a fact...link?
1
Posted on 9/20/16 at 4:06 pm to burdman
If he reached no weapon or not he deserved what he got..
Posted on 9/20/16 at 4:06 pm to Five0
quote:
You fight cops in a courtroom with an attorney.
intelligent people do
quote:
I know a guy. ;-)
Posted on 9/20/16 at 4:06 pm to Topwater Trout
Do your own legwork, Chump. When you find you're wrong, come back and make some lame excuses, as always.
Posted on 9/20/16 at 4:07 pm to shel311
quote:
We are in the context of this discussion...when we're talking about a copy infringing on your freedoms and specifically to the point I made, when he becomes irrational and you feel he may do something harmful if you continue to stand up for yourself. No?
AFAIK Legally speaking if he is acting outside of his prescribed powers you have every right to defend yourself. Unfortunately they are usually better armed than you are so you will likely lose. As previously mentioned, it's a bad idea to fight all cops, even the ones the law says you can.
There was a case in the Ruby Ridge standoff where the homeowner legally shot and killed a LEO because he didn't have proper authority for UOF. In fact a jury acquitted the homeowner after the court found he acted in self defense by killing Deputy U.S. Marshal William Francis Degan.
But you make a fair point in that living is better than dying. If we want to go that route let's at least be honest about this whole land of the free stuff.
Posted on 9/20/16 at 4:07 pm to The Pirate King
quote:
but if this is true this is the MO for the typical "saint" that was a great father and turning his life around.
He was enrolled in the local community college. He had actually just got out of class
Posted on 9/20/16 at 4:10 pm to Five0
quote:
The officers' actions are judged on what they perceived in the moment and not by the facts learned later.
i think that is something that both sides forget when MMQB'ing. you have to make the call with the best available information available and reasonably accessible in the moment. a lot of people get way carried away with after the fact discoveries (the gun wasnt even loaded! as an example i read from another case recently)
Posted on 9/20/16 at 4:13 pm to Sao
quote:
Chump
Posted on 9/20/16 at 4:14 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
There was a case in the Ruby Ridge standoff where the homeowner legally shot and killed a LEO because he didn't have proper authority for UOF. In fact a jury acquitted the homeowner after the court found he acted in self defense by killing Deputy U.S. Marshal William Francis Degan.
actually just finished a pretty good read on that one.... those guys got way overzealous and had to do a lot to try to cover their tracks. in the end, there was even a theory that Degan was shot from behind by one of the deputies that got carried away.
Posted on 9/20/16 at 4:17 pm to NoSaint
quote:
you have to make the call with the best available information available and reasonably accessible in the moment.
The same standard is applied to citizens in statute. See the AL statute on menacing:
§ 13A-6-23. Menacing.
Currentness
(a) A person commits the crime of menacing if, by physical action, he intentionally places or attempts to place another person in fear of imminent serious physical injury.
(b) Menacing is a Class B misdemeanor.
Apparently, under case law, the previously existing assault statutes did not cover the mere creation of apprehension in a complaint of being harmed, where defendant did not actually intend an injury, or there was insufficient means, or no present ability, to accomplish the believed harm. The classic example is where defendant, intending to frighten another, points an unloaded gun at him, though not known by the victim to be so. Chapman v. State, 78 Ala. 463 (1885) (aiming unloaded gun in menacing manner so as to terrify complainant not criminal assault; must be a present intention, as well as present ability).
Posted on 9/20/16 at 4:18 pm to Five0
quote:
The officers' actions are judged on what they perceived in the moment and not by the facts learned later.
So for example if she perceived the window to be open and it was actually closed and there was no possibility of him reaching for a weapon, she still walks because in her mind it was open?
That interpretation leaves entire crime scenes open to colorful imagination.
Posted on 9/20/16 at 4:23 pm to Five0
Next time I get stopped for speeding i'm going to use the subjective ignorance of the speed limit sign defense. The highway looks like others which are 70 so I had no clue it was 55. I perceived it differently. In fact, my perception was correct because I didn't cause an accident going 15 over.
Posted on 9/20/16 at 4:23 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
That interpretation leaves entire crime scenes open to colorful imagination.
In AL, the same standard applies in self defense cases. In my research most deadly force policies for agencies in my state read almost verbatim from the self defense statute in AL. 13A-3-23 if you are curious. For what it is worth, I like officers and citizens having the same standard. Your mileage may vary given your state's laws.
This post was edited on 9/20/16 at 4:25 pm
Posted on 9/20/16 at 4:24 pm to Sao
Good luck.
Posted on 9/20/16 at 4:26 pm to Five0
What can they do? Deny it looks different than a highway I can cite? I mean, it's not my fault I perceived the speed limit differently due to past experience.
Posted on 9/20/16 at 4:30 pm to Sao
quote:
Next time I get stopped for speeding i'm going to use the subjective ignorance of the speed limit sign defense. The highway looks like others which are 70 so I had no clue it was 55. I perceived it differently. In fact, my perception was correct because I didn't cause an accident going 15 over.
No, no, no...
You're doing it wrong- Heien v. North Carolina. Under equal protection of the law if an officer has the legal latitude to make reasonable mistakes of law, so should the average citizen. The law was never meant to be a perfect device (paraphrasing the majority decision), therefore reasonable mistakes of law should be overlooked in the prosecution of said cases.
So if you reasonably thought the speed limit was 85 and you were going 80 in a 70, it's ok because you made an understandable assumption.
I have yet to try this in court, but it might work
. LINK
Posted on 9/20/16 at 4:36 pm to NYNolaguy1
Bookmarked
Posted on 9/20/16 at 4:49 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
The perpetually self-persecuted, and white among us, shall, thankfully, inherit TD.
Posted on 9/20/16 at 5:07 pm to PropofolPapi
If any of us did this we would immediately be arrested for homicide. Imagine if you were having slight words with someone and he opened his car door or reached in his window and you shot and killed him. You would be hauled away. Although cops should be held to a higher standard, they are actually held to a lower standard.
This post was edited on 9/20/16 at 5:09 pm
Posted on 9/20/16 at 5:14 pm to LSUTANGERINE
quote:
I don't even think the officers thought he was going for a gun. None of them moved suddenly or even flinched. I bet this was some sort of accidental discharge. Family going to get paid and someone is going to be on desk duty.
One of the few times I've agreed with you. From the sound of the female's voice, it was probably accidental. But for God's sake people (white,brown,yellow,black), don't walk away from the cops and just comply. Live to fight another day. Worst case scenario, you get a bogus charge. Best case, you get rich. But you're almost 100% likely to live to see the next sunrise.
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