re: People who live to work

quote:

---

Or if you feel that sacrificing the maximum amount you could be providing for your family so that you can spend your own time the way you'd selfishly like is your definition of success.

(See how that creative framing works both ways?)

---

Seems like you ignored the point and focused on a sentence. I was not condemning the work at all cost types. The point is, success is what you make it.

I was fortunate to go to work for a company, straight out of college, that was all work. It was one of those places where you had to stay late just to save face, because everyone else stayed late. People worked 10-12 hour days, and came in on weekends. Now, to be fair, this is required, at times, from the industry. However, this company required it as "normal". It had one of the highest divorce rates of any company in the industry, but it was also very successful. The people there moved all around the country on a moment's notice to go to the next project. I lasted about 3 1/2 years. And i say i was "fortunate" because it wasn't a slow bleed into an unbalanced work life. It was 90% work, 10% life from the moment i jumped in. I was paid well but i realized that money for the sacrifice of my free time was not worth it. Luckily, i was single at the time when i worked there.

I think there are maybe 1 or 2 people left that still work for that company that i was friends with. The rest went to work elsewhere. I'm happy with the path i've chosen, and though i despised working for that company, it taught me a very valuable lesson early on, at least to me. It helped me realize what i wanted out of life.

quote:

---

I’ve turned down higher paying jobs because they required working nights , weekends and holidays .

I didn’t want to miss my kids growing up and other things.
Not worth it to me .

---

I have been lucky enough for the last 18 years to work independently as a consultant - most of the time with an employment contract but basically a one person small business. 6 years ago I fricked around and took a gig I knew was going to be a major pain in the arse because of the amount of time it would require AND the number of people who would answer directly to me. Salary was FANTASTIC and the relocation package was the best I ever negotiated....and they agreed to a 12 month contract the stupid bastards (major engineering / construction firm, possibly the largest in the world according to them). On EXACTLY the 365th day of that contract I had another gig making 35% of what I had made the previous year. I told them when we signed the original contract that I was out at the end of 12 months....they thought I was joking, to the point that they'd joke about it through out the year. I assured them I was out at the end of the contract. At 10 months I told them I was starting a new gig in 2 months and would not be around. They were completely floored....started making all sorts of offers. I told them, in no uncertain terms, that the ONLY way I stayed was for 35% of my base salary and no more than 40 hours a week and only one subordinate who could make as much as they pleased and work as many hours as they wanted them to. Obviously that was never going to happen. On exactly the 365th day of that initial contract I gathered up what little personal shite I had in my office, left at 8 hours and started the new gig the next Monday morning. I told them from day one that was my plan. For 10 months they thought I was joking, for about a month after that they began to realize I might not be and for another month after that you would have thought I had raped their granny....they weren't happy at all despite them knowing, from day one, what my plans were.

For those who will no doubt think I somehow mistreated this company I assure you their executives do not suffer from any such delusion. Their mid level local management are probably still butt hurt over it BUT they are only butt hurt because they are stuck in the shite and not willing to get out. During that year I made changes to processes and scheduling that allowed this company to settle a 9 year long mutli-billion $ lawsuit for fraudulent billing AND allowed the government agency in question to once again approve and pay invoices on this $18 billion project (and counting), something that had not happened in 64 months prior to my signing that initial contract. I have been offered multiple contract with this company since and if they ever have one working 4-10s and paying me about 50% of what that one paid I would seriously consider it. But only if it was remote and I was working from my boat.....

quote:

---

think I somehow mistreated this company I assure you their executives do not suffer from any such delusion.

---

One train of thought is would they hesitate to lay you or another off if needed? I’m all for loyalty within reason.

Pride?

I know full well I'm just a cog in the machine. Problem is, I take pride in what I do. I was a hell of an engineer and now I lead a team of guys who are great engineers. I have the resources and connections to make projects move forward, to change the way my sector of the business operates. Call me an idiot, but I take pride in being able to make that difference. I want to be able to look back in 5 years and be proud of transformative efforts. I'm good at what I do, enjoy the people I work with, and genuinely get the ole' adrenaline running when problem-solving. Sure, I get compensated well which makes the dedication more tolerable but, by and large, I just like my career and take pride in it.

That said, I work with folks who are working 75-85 hours a week when I know for a fact they could delegate many of their functions and get down to 60ish hrs a week. I can't explain that mindset....I'm not there. I can do it occasionally if it's needed but to regularly put in those hours? Hell no.

quote:

---

Your company pays you for a service. When you can't deliver that service they will find someone who can. Likewise, when you deliver exceptional service you are generally rewarded for it. Being excellent at what you do is one of the greatest feelings and achievements in life, and i feel bad for those who never strive to achieve it.

---

Far too often the employer does not really know what it is they are paying for and almost universally they expect way more honey than what they are paying for.

I estimate the costs associated for a myriad of services ranging in scope from complex designs to janitorial services and inevitably the vendors who provide quotes have almost no understanding of what it is they are quoting and when they are successful and actually frick around and win a contract their main management technique is to pay as little as possible and get as much as possible out of the underpaid employee before the employee drags the frick up.


Being excellent at what you do is not fair to your employer. They are most likely paying you to be merely competent, not excellent. If you provide them with excellent service for merely competent pricing they will grow to believe that any competent employee can emulate what is in effect excellent service. An employer should only expect and accept what they are paying for and an employee should NEVER give an employer a scent of anything extra because it is unfair to the employer who will never have a real idea of what their actual costs are. Most employers have no idea what their real costs are anyway, they know what things cost but that is not the same concept. Part of that is due to employees doing more than they are being paid to do. Itd be the same thing if you paid for 10 widgets and got 11....you would eventually surmise that 11 was the norm for the cost of 10.

quote:

---

The days of being able to work 40 hours/week and to provide adequately for a family with one income are over. It doesn't matter if it is upsetting to you, it is the truth.

---

False. I work 37-40 hours every week and my wife does not work. We have plenty of income.

quote:

---

A man provides. If you aren't smart enough to get a very high base salary (Investment Banking or Doctor) you need to either start your own business or to be in some elemet of corporate sales where you determine your own income

---

I don’t do any of this.

quote:

---

One train of thought is would they hesitate to lay you or another off if needed? I’m all for loyalty within reason.

---

I have never been loyal to an employer and have never expected an employer to be loyal to me. I am not loyal to customers either. If their is someone wanting my services and I can work with them and they are paying me more than someone else they are going to get the better of what I am selling. Its business. There is no room for loyalty.

I gave a company 2 weeks' notice once and the owner laughed and told me he appreciated it but it wasn't necessary, when they were done with me they would give me about 2 hours notice LOL. Its business. If I am no longer needing material from a wholesaler I do not continue to but material from them because they are a good person who I admire.

quote:

---

I am not loyal to customers either. If their is someone wanting my services and I can work with them and they are paying me more than someone else they are going to get the better of what I am selling. Its business. There is no room for loyalt

---

Do you concern yourself about negative word of mouth / loss of business. I’m not a fan of the customer is always right BUT if you agree to a service, ethically, shouldn’t you honor it?

quote:

---

need hobbies but never found any.

---

I’m thinking about taking up violin. My body is just to broke down to do anything physical. Seems like something I could do taking up little time due to me working 50 hours / week lol