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Natural Gas Flow Engineering Question
Posted on 3/19/21 at 7:42 am
Posted on 3/19/21 at 7:42 am
We are trying to tap into a Nat Gas pipeline for our kiln expansion project. We had a conference call with the engineers yesterday and they had differing opinions on if it was feasible. These are the basics.
The parent line is 3" steel running at 150 psi. It taps into Transco and runs for 12 miles to our little town.
About a mile before it gets to town, we want to tap into it, and run it 6000 feet to our facility.
We want to run 2" poly pipe at 100 psi. The goal is to be able to run a 25 mmBtu per hour burner.
Of the three engineers on the call, they had these opinions:
Engineer one said we could get 35-40 mcf per hour. No problem. Move forward with the project.
Engineer two says his calculations showed we would only get about 15 mcf per hour.
Engineer three said we would get enough to run our project. But that it wouldn't leave enough to run the town.
What says the OT? I don't know Jack spit about Nat Gas.
The parent line is 3" steel running at 150 psi. It taps into Transco and runs for 12 miles to our little town.
About a mile before it gets to town, we want to tap into it, and run it 6000 feet to our facility.
We want to run 2" poly pipe at 100 psi. The goal is to be able to run a 25 mmBtu per hour burner.
Of the three engineers on the call, they had these opinions:
Engineer one said we could get 35-40 mcf per hour. No problem. Move forward with the project.
Engineer two says his calculations showed we would only get about 15 mcf per hour.
Engineer three said we would get enough to run our project. But that it wouldn't leave enough to run the town.
What says the OT? I don't know Jack spit about Nat Gas.
17
Posted on 3/19/21 at 7:49 am to No Colors
Neither does the OT
Posted on 3/19/21 at 7:51 am to No Colors
sizing capacity in NG pipe is a function of three things
1) line pressure
2) total BTU load on the system
3) distance to the most remote connection
it's all about a look up chart. you look up operating pressure and then distance to the most remote load connection. then you look at BTU capacity based on pipe size at that distance.
EDIT: also if you leave your tap and run at 150 PSI it will have more capacity. you can use a step down regulator at the plant instead of the tap. if the designers are worried about HDPE burst pressure rating then use SDR 7 vs 11.5 at 2"
1) line pressure
2) total BTU load on the system
3) distance to the most remote connection
it's all about a look up chart. you look up operating pressure and then distance to the most remote load connection. then you look at BTU capacity based on pipe size at that distance.
EDIT: also if you leave your tap and run at 150 PSI it will have more capacity. you can use a step down regulator at the plant instead of the tap. if the designers are worried about HDPE burst pressure rating then use SDR 7 vs 11.5 at 2"
This post was edited on 3/19/21 at 8:00 am
Posted on 3/19/21 at 7:52 am to No Colors
Get each engineer tell you why their calculation is correct and the other guy is wrong. Maybe you need some new engineers. Seems like it would be a fairly easy calculation once you have all the variables.
Posted on 3/19/21 at 7:53 am to No Colors
350
Posted on 3/19/21 at 7:53 am to No Colors
Gotta use 3.50"
This post was edited on 3/19/21 at 7:54 am
Posted on 3/19/21 at 7:53 am to No Colors
Idk why engineers get good reputations anymore
If they can’t plug it in a calculator or excel sheet they are useless
If they can’t plug it in a calculator or excel sheet they are useless
Posted on 3/19/21 at 7:54 am to wileyjones
quote:
Idk why engineers get good reputations anymore
If they can’t plug it in a calculator or excel sheet they are useless
Many are sharp, most are not
Posted on 3/19/21 at 7:56 am to No Colors
I calc about 10mm btu/hr, 10k cf/hr.
Posted on 3/19/21 at 7:58 am to No Colors
If you can’t do a basic pressure drop calculation for natural gas piping, you’re in the wrong business.
Might I suggest Human Resources as a profession?
Might I suggest Human Resources as a profession?
Posted on 3/19/21 at 8:08 am to No Colors
Is that 150 psi measured at the town or 12 miles upstream?
Posted on 3/19/21 at 8:16 am to No Colors
If they tap the line on the end pas the towns connections and then run it back a mile to your place you will have the gas you need without starving the town..
Posted on 3/19/21 at 8:19 am to No Colors
quote:
Transco
Does Transco know you're doing this? If not, they are going to be pissed.
Posted on 3/19/21 at 8:21 am to No Colors
quote:
About a mile before it gets to town, we want to tap into it
Posted on 3/19/21 at 8:21 am to No Colors
Go to:
Pressure loss calculator
You can use 18 for molecular weight, and 0.012 cP for viscosity.
25 MBtu/Hr is about 25 mscfh. This is standard cubic feet or flow if the pressure is atmospheric. To get ACFM (actual cubic feet per minute):
25,000x(1 hr/60 min)(14.7/114.7 pressure correction) = 53.4 cfm. With the calculator the pressure loss for 600 feet is 4.1 psi which isn't too terrible. Pressure loss is a square function so if you double the flow the pressure loss is 4 times as large or 16 psi, a bit much. It really depends on how much gas the town needs. If the town needs more than 25 MBtu/hr then it's marginal. 2 inches is pretty small.
Pressure loss calculator
You can use 18 for molecular weight, and 0.012 cP for viscosity.
25 MBtu/Hr is about 25 mscfh. This is standard cubic feet or flow if the pressure is atmospheric. To get ACFM (actual cubic feet per minute):
25,000x(1 hr/60 min)(14.7/114.7 pressure correction) = 53.4 cfm. With the calculator the pressure loss for 600 feet is 4.1 psi which isn't too terrible. Pressure loss is a square function so if you double the flow the pressure loss is 4 times as large or 16 psi, a bit much. It really depends on how much gas the town needs. If the town needs more than 25 MBtu/hr then it's marginal. 2 inches is pretty small.
Posted on 3/19/21 at 8:23 am to No Colors
quote:
Engineer three said we would get enough to run our project. But that it wouldn't leave enough to run the town.
Go with this.
Screw the town, set up your crawfish burner baw.
Posted on 3/19/21 at 8:24 am to No Colors
depends on what I had to eat, but typically it flows out the anus. It starts when undigested food moves from the small intestine to the large intestine. Once it gets there, my bacteria goes to work on it. It creates hydrogen, carbon dioxide, and methane, which then leave my body out my anus. It's a pretty natural process
Posted on 3/19/21 at 8:33 am to Slingscode
quote:
Does Transco know you're doing this? If not, they are going to be pissed.
I think he wants to tap into the town distribution line, which is metered from the Transco mid-stream line.
Posted on 3/19/21 at 8:40 am to No Colors
Get you a compressor, baw.
Posted on 3/19/21 at 8:43 am to Tbonepatron
quote:
If you can’t do a basic pressure drop calculation for natural gas piping, you’re in the wrong business.
I'm in the lumber business. I'm not in the Nat Gas engineering calculations business. But if it's so easy, why don't you tell me what your calculations show?
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