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Message
re: How Much More Technologically Advanced Would we be if There was Never a Dark Age
Posted on 3/6/16 at 10:56 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
Posted on 3/6/16 at 10:56 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
quote:
Am I off by saying that if the Dark Ages never happened we would have had things like light bulbs, cell phones, cars, etc. much sooner?
The destruction of the Library in Alexandria and the resulting loss of knowledge and manuscripts did more to set civilization back than the dark ages.
quote:
That might be a stretch, but according to the show I saw, they claimed that the knowledge lost there set western civilization back by about 1500 years.
The knowledge accumulated at the Library of Alexandria was still in existence in the world, however it was spread over large areas, and not stored in one area. It eventually made its way back into civilization during the Renaissance period. However, if it had still been available in one central location, I believe civilization would be much more advanced than it is right now.
1
Posted on 3/6/16 at 10:59 pm to Dr RC
quote:
hundreds of years ago there was a feudal lord sitting in his castle grumbling about the god damn liberal universities brainwashing the youth into destroying their way of life.
Pretty much
What else were their younger sons supposed to do? At least sending them off to some University kept them from plotting to overthrow the King or from killing the eldest brother to assume his inheritance. Prior to the Crusades, there was really only one kind of "university" and that was the Seminary. The Church's canon law courts governed disputes in family law and successions and such. Royal courts often handled property and transactional disputes as well as all criminal law.
After the Crusades, the bringing back of the classical knowledge of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, ect as well as the laws of Justinian changed that. There basically became three different types of degrees, a degree in humanities (classical knowledge and literature), canon law (church law), and roman law (Justinian). The Roman Laws just made economics easier. Heck, Louisiana's Civil Code is by and large a compilation of that Roman law. The definitions of what is owned by the state in its public capacity, what is owned by private citizens, ect is all straight out of Rome.
Posted on 3/6/16 at 11:18 pm to kingbob
The siege of Bahgdad by the Mongols in the 13th century that destroyed the great library that was an unrivaled center of study.
Western Europe may have never picked itself back to the center of the world if it wasn't for the destruction the Mongols laid to the Middle East.
The knowledge lost will never be known
Western Europe may have never picked itself back to the center of the world if it wasn't for the destruction the Mongols laid to the Middle East.
The knowledge lost will never be known
Posted on 3/6/16 at 11:20 pm to kingbob
quote:
So much knowledge was lost regarding engineering, mathematics, astronomy, botany, metallurgy, ect.
As for metallurgy this is another area of technology that has been gained and lost throughout history. The Ulfbreht Swords are another fascinating part of lost history from around 900 AD. These swords were made with metallurgical skills that are extremely difficult to duplicate even today. Actually had Mr Ulf's initials imprinted in the steel itself. Historians actually are not sure if this was the name of the person who built them or just the name of swords. Another good one to read up on.
Posted on 3/6/16 at 11:30 pm to TygerDurden
quote:
Ah Yes the Antikythera mechanism or Device as it is called. Absolutely fascinating piece of machinery. Sponge divers found it in the early 1900's It calculated planet movements to an incredible degree of accuracy. Some scholars think that parts of it may still be on the sea floor and may hold even more astounding advances never thought possible for that era. It was from approx 200 BC. Let that sink in for a moment ...2200 years ago the knowledge to build this device was not theoretical but accomplished and practiced. Possibly the first computer ever. If some are not familiar with this device read up on it.
I had the privilege of going on an EF trip to Greece and Italy when I was in high school. While in Athens, we went to the National Archaeological Museum. There, I got to see the Antikythera mechanism just sitting corroding in a display case. My jaw dropped when I saw it. I think I just stared and marveled at it for 20 minutes straight. I saw gold discovered in the tomb of Agememnon. Pottery that is thought to be 12,000 years old. It was all incredibly fascinating stuff.
This post was edited on 3/6/16 at 11:32 pm
Posted on 3/6/16 at 11:46 pm to fr33manator
quote:not to mention that just because it was a dark age in europe, it doesn't mean it was so elsewhere. China and the middle east were doing a bunch of shite during that period
You realize the dark ages weren't really all that dark and that things like the Black Death helped to end feudalism and spur on the Renaissance, right?
Posted on 3/7/16 at 12:04 am to TigerFanInSouthland
Well, Regan - Bush was pretty bleak. Not sure how much it cost us intellectually, but it was a lot!
Posted on 3/7/16 at 12:14 am to TigerFanInSouthland
Ugh, ugh, ugh. Ignorance.
As several others have stated,the idea that those were the dark ages are false. The concept comes from the idea that the western Roman Empire discontinued and that different regions turned to self rule. That's certainly true, but that doesn't mean that it's a bad thing. The Roman Empire had long lived on fumes and became so weak, people no longer had any desire to have one. In fact, the Roman times were far bloodier, more oppressive and crueler than the following years.
I could go on and on. If you have any specific questions, just ask.
As several others have stated,the idea that those were the dark ages are false. The concept comes from the idea that the western Roman Empire discontinued and that different regions turned to self rule. That's certainly true, but that doesn't mean that it's a bad thing. The Roman Empire had long lived on fumes and became so weak, people no longer had any desire to have one. In fact, the Roman times were far bloodier, more oppressive and crueler than the following years.
I could go on and on. If you have any specific questions, just ask.
Posted on 3/7/16 at 12:53 am to athenslife101
quote:
Ugh, ugh, ugh. Ignorance.
As several others have stated,the idea that those were the dark ages are false. The concept comes from the idea that the western Roman Empire discontinued and that different regions turned to self rule. That's certainly true, but that doesn't mean that it's a bad thing. The Roman Empire had long lived on fumes and became so weak, people no longer had any desire to have one. In fact, the Roman times were far bloodier, more oppressive and crueler than the following years.
I could go on and on. If you have any specific questions, just ask.
Well, it depends on which era of the Roman Empire to which you're referring. If someone lived under the most of the Julio-Claudians or in the 2nd century AD or under Diocletian and Constantine (notwithstanding the former's pretty brutal persecution of Christians), then life was generally pretty good and productive. If someone lived in Gracchi-Marius/Sulla-First Triumvirate era or in the 3rd century AD, then life was pretty shite.
That's nearly a thousand years of history to which you just put a pretty broad stroke, and it's not necessarily true. There was plenty of stuff in the middle and latter parts of the Roman Republic and Empire that couldn't be re-created for nearly a millennium or more later.
Posted on 3/7/16 at 6:09 am to AbuTheMonkey
Well, Diocletian completely fricked over the economy and started serfdom so I'd say not too long after that. The mid-300s on we're invasion after invasion. The people literally refused to defend themselves (massive desertion of the armies, literally hiding possible recruits from the Roman army).
Posted on 3/7/16 at 6:38 am to TigerFanInSouthland
no "Dark" Age?
Is this some sort of racist code word?
triggered!
Is this some sort of racist code word?
triggered!
Posted on 3/7/16 at 6:41 am to TigerFanInSouthland
The dark ages weren't actually that dark.
Posted on 3/7/16 at 7:18 am to kingbob
quote:
Prior to the Crusades, there was really only one kind of "university" and that was the Seminary. The Church's canon law courts governed disputes in family law and successions and such. Royal courts often handled property and transactional disputes as well as all criminal law. After the Crusades, the bringing back of the classical knowledge of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, ect as well as the laws of Justinian changed that
Also important about that time was the development of mathematics using the Hindu-Arabic system of numbers. Fabonacci helped spread the use of this system in the 12th century which allowed scientific creativity which wasn't possible under the Roman system of numbers in general use throughout Europe.
Posted on 3/7/16 at 7:25 am to uptownsage
quote:
The knowledge accumulated at the Library of Alexandria was still in existence in the world, however it was spread over large areas, and not stored in one area. It eventually made its way back into civilization during the Renaissance period. However, if it had still been available in one central location, I believe civilization would be much more advanced than it is right now.
Have you even been to the Alexandria library? You're giving it way too much credit
Posted on 3/7/16 at 8:04 am to el Gaucho
Scientific studies have proven that there may have been literature about alien technology at that library.
Posted on 3/7/16 at 8:56 am to DanMullins4Life
I have nothing additional to add, but reading these threads makes me want to go back and take more world history in college.
It sure is fascenating
It sure is fascenating
Posted on 3/7/16 at 8:59 am to Dr RC
quote:You should read up on the death of Socrates
hundreds of years ago there was a feudal lord sitting in his castle grumbling about the god damn liberal universities brainwashing the youth into destroying their way of life.
Posted on 3/7/16 at 12:05 pm to TigerRob20
quote:
I have nothing additional to add, but reading these threads makes me want to go back and take more world history in college.
Thanks. It is discussions like these that make the ancient aliens stuff seem so laughable on its face. There is evidence of countless times when civilizations developed "advanced" technologies only for those discoveries to be forgotten after that civilization's destruction.
I think the Dark Ages are a great example. Much of what the Romans did became the stuff of legends and myth, but it was historical fact.
I think the same is true for early man who was reeling from the mass inundation of coast lines following the thawing of the last ice age. Is it truly unthinkable that areas which are now vast seas (Black Sea, Persian Gulf, Mediterranean, Red Sea, ect) could have once been fertile river valleys when water levels were lower? Is it also unthinkable that advanced civilizations could have developed during the ice age in those now inundated areas? Is it simply coincidence that the first truly "advanced" civilization just so happened to develop merely a few miles north of the Persian Gulf which was so inundated?
Posted on 3/7/16 at 12:09 pm to kingbob
quote:
With the library gone, the knowledge of how to build, maintain, and use these devices died with those who used them.
If it was so important then wouldn't people have passed the knowledge on to apprentices?
Posted on 3/7/16 at 12:51 pm to terd ferguson
quote:
If it was so important then wouldn't people have passed the knowledge on to apprentices?
The library allowed widespread dissemination of ideas which results in improvements.
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