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Message
"Attorney Fees" versus "Outside Attorney Fees"
Posted on 1/4/14 at 8:31 am
Posted on 1/4/14 at 8:31 am
Can any OT legal minds tell me the difference between the two terms, "Attorney Fees" versus "Outside Attorney Fees"?
I have a decent equipment rental agreement that I have used before. I have only rented some of my equipment once but a TV production company contacted me and wanted to rent my mobile kitchen for a shoot they are producing in the New Orleans area. I sent them the agreement I have used before and their legal department has edited the agreement in two areas that are a concern for me.
One the changed the wording "Attorney Fees" to "Outside Attorney Fees" and that the agreement would be governed under the laws of California instead of Louisiana.
Any thoughts?
I have a decent equipment rental agreement that I have used before. I have only rented some of my equipment once but a TV production company contacted me and wanted to rent my mobile kitchen for a shoot they are producing in the New Orleans area. I sent them the agreement I have used before and their legal department has edited the agreement in two areas that are a concern for me.
One the changed the wording "Attorney Fees" to "Outside Attorney Fees" and that the agreement would be governed under the laws of California instead of Louisiana.
Any thoughts?
6
Posted on 1/4/14 at 8:34 am to Ambassador
You are going to have to give more context, but my guess is that the TV company has in house counsel that handle things like contracts. If there are any problems they send it to a firm.
Posted on 1/4/14 at 8:36 am to Ambassador
Pay a good lawyer a few hundred and cover your arse if it's that big of contract.
If it's a small enough contract that you don't want to spend a few hundred in arse covering then tell them to sign your form as is if they want the equipment. No changes.
If it's a small enough contract that you don't want to spend a few hundred in arse covering then tell them to sign your form as is if they want the equipment. No changes.
This post was edited on 1/4/14 at 8:38 am
Posted on 1/4/14 at 8:42 am to CountryVolFan
quote:
10) DEFAULT BY RENTEE: In the event Rentee defaults in the performance of any of the terms, covenants,
agreements or conditions contained in this rental agreement and does not cure such default within a reasonable time, and Rentor places the enforcement of this rental agreement, or any part thereof, or the collection of any rent due or to become due hereunder, or the recovery of the possession of the rental agreement equipment in the hands of an attorney, or files suit upon same, Rentee agrees to pay reasonable outside attorney’s fees incurred by Rentor.
The changed part is bolded. They added added both bolded parts.
Posted on 1/4/14 at 8:43 am to Ambassador
I would make the time frame definite, like a week.
Posted on 1/4/14 at 8:47 am to Ambassador
Yeah, if they sue you for default they are going to farm it out. That's what I suspected.
Posted on 1/4/14 at 8:48 am to Ambassador
As I read it, if the rentee defaults it has a reasonable time to cure whatever breach/default it has committed.
It will pay reasonable fees for a firm the rentor hires, but apparently will not be responsible for attorney fees that are generated by in house attorneys.
It will pay reasonable fees for a firm the rentor hires, but apparently will not be responsible for attorney fees that are generated by in house attorneys.
Posted on 1/4/14 at 8:52 am to Ambassador
Sounds like you'll be paying attorney fees to another firm that they contract out to
*not legal advice
*not legal advice
Posted on 1/4/14 at 9:02 am to Ambassador
Not sure about the outside fees bit but don't change the venue..
Posted on 1/4/14 at 9:05 am to CountryVolFan
quote:
Yeah, if they sue you for default they are going to farm it out. That's what I suspected.
I am the rentor, not the rentee. They will be paying me for breach of contract.
Posted on 1/4/14 at 9:06 am to TROLA
You tell them sissy Cali boys, if they want to do bidness in Louisiana, they do it our way...
Right, Eddie?
Right, Eddie?
Posted on 1/4/14 at 9:18 am to IonaTiger
quote:
It will pay reasonable fees for a firm the rentor hires, but apparently will not be responsible for attorney fees that are generated by in house attorneys.
That makes sense.
Posted on 1/4/14 at 9:28 am to Ambassador
It probably has to do with the fact that "in-house" attorneys are usually on a salary and the rentee is not going to pay for fees generated by a salaried employee. I do not know how big your company is, but do you have "in-house" attorneys? If not, you'd have to retain an attorney anyway to pursue a claim.
I do not know the contract laws of Louisiana or California, but if you are renting in Louisiana, I agree with the person who said that he wouldn't change the applicable law to that of California. Why should you (or the rentee) pay to have a Louisiana attorney get up to speed on the laws of California should suit need to be filed?
I do not know the contract laws of Louisiana or California, but if you are renting in Louisiana, I agree with the person who said that he wouldn't change the applicable law to that of California. Why should you (or the rentee) pay to have a Louisiana attorney get up to speed on the laws of California should suit need to be filed?
This post was edited on 1/4/14 at 10:58 am
Posted on 1/4/14 at 9:37 am to IonaTiger
I am not an attorney, but I deal with our contracts a lot. I often see the compromise on venue that if you file suit, the venue is theirs (CA) and if they file suit, it is in your venue (LA).
Just FYI if you need to find middle ground.
Just FYI if you need to find middle ground.
Posted on 1/4/14 at 9:38 am to IonaTiger
Well he would just hire a Cali lawyer as opposed to a LA lawyer so no big deal - but venue is likely not something that a big studio company is going to budge on. If you insist on LA, you're likely going to lose the potential business - so you'll have to figure out how important that is to you.
Posted on 1/4/14 at 9:41 am to tiger114
It all depends on how much of a sticking point the choice of laws will be. I practice in Virginia, DC, and Maryland and always choose the place of performance to be fair. I do not agree to a jurisdiction other than the place of performance. It has never been a deal killer.
Posted on 1/4/14 at 9:48 am to IonaTiger
The parent company is in California but they have recently created a new LLC in Louisiana. I think place of performance and that both LLC's are in Louisiana that the jurisdiction should be Louisiana.
They have also asked for me to remove the personal guarantee. I think if I do that then they need to pay the full rental at the beginning and not split it like we have discussed.
They have also asked for me to remove the personal guarantee. I think if I do that then they need to pay the full rental at the beginning and not split it like we have discussed.
Posted on 1/4/14 at 10:27 am to Ambassador
Seems to me that asking for La. law would not be a deal breaker under the circumstances. A personal guarantee or all money up front may me a deal breaker. Good luck. 
This post was edited on 1/4/14 at 6:47 pm
Posted on 1/4/14 at 10:40 am to Ambassador
Tell them to get fricked. Never give in to another states laws over your home state.
Posted on 1/4/14 at 10:52 am to Ambassador
It means that, in the event of of breach, they would only have to pay attorney fees that you had to pay to cure the breach that you would not have had to pay otherwise.
This is usually done for big corporations who have inside counsel who are employees and get paid a salary. If someone breaches an agreement with the corporation, sometimes the corporation sues and tries to recover the "attorney fees" (i.e., the salary) they pay their employee lawyers.
Changing it to "outside attorney fees" ensures that the breaching party will only have to pay attorney fees that the other party (you) incurred by paying a lawyer who is not already on your payroll--a lawyer who is "outside" of your business.
This is usually done for big corporations who have inside counsel who are employees and get paid a salary. If someone breaches an agreement with the corporation, sometimes the corporation sues and tries to recover the "attorney fees" (i.e., the salary) they pay their employee lawyers.
Changing it to "outside attorney fees" ensures that the breaching party will only have to pay attorney fees that the other party (you) incurred by paying a lawyer who is not already on your payroll--a lawyer who is "outside" of your business.
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