- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
After Rewatching the Bears Game
Posted on 10/30/17 at 10:42 am
Posted on 10/30/17 at 10:42 am
So during the game yesterday, I kept thinking to myself that while the Saints only allowed 12 points, the defense looked lost at times. Big gashes from the run game, and big plays in the passing game made it seem like the defense was having some issues with assignments and communication. I am no football coach but I decided to take a look at a few plays and try to find some of those issues that Coach Sean Payton is always talking about "Cleaning Up"....
1st Quarter, 1st and 10 from the bears 38 yard line. The Saints seem to come out in a formation to show a single high safety set, man under with Lattimore covering the near side WR. Trubisky puts a WR into motion to bunch on the near side which (below) prompts Lattimore to look back at Marcus Williams to request help. Since the Saints are showing blitz up front, putting the man in motion allows Trubisky to determine whether the CB's are playing man or zone and begin to make his pre-snap read.
The Saints now show zone coverage with Lattimore giving space off of the line of scrimmage. Marcus Williams comes down into a closer zone coverage but you can clearly see him trying to vocalize (below) the coverage, after the WR motions to the near side, to ensure nothing gets over top on a cross route down the field.
Trubisky keeps his eyes towards the middle/left portion of the field just enough to keep Ken Crawley engaged, leaving the zone behind him uncovered.
Below you can see Crawley trying to recover the zone but the catch had already been made by McBride who ran to the 17 yard line of the Saints for a gain of 45.
This breakdown in assignment or communication is on Crawley. Underneath coverage by Kenny Vacarro and AJ Klein was in tact, and Lattimore was glued to his receiver.
A positive pre-snap play here from the defense that ultimately produces a first down for Chicago.
Nearly Halftime, 3rd and 11 to go from the Saints 34. You can see the gears from watching film during the week churning in AJ Klein's head...he sees the motion to the far side with Vacarro in two, which tells Trubisky the defense is in man coverage.
You can actually see on film when something clicks in Klein's head to change the coverage, pulling Robertson to the near side to cover the RB out of the backfield and he shifts over to cover the TE. From first glance it seems like the communication is there and the Saints have adjusted with Klein's direction.
Klein's pre-snap read puts the Saints into a Cover 2 man adjustment.
Craig Robertson makes the correct read on the play breaking on the ball instantly. To me Trubisky would not have had much of a choice in this play regardless as it looks as thought the Saints coverage is initially in tact.
Unfortunately, Robertson is blocked just enough and misses the tackle in the backfield allowing Howard to pick up 12 yards and a first down.
1st Quarter, 1st and 10 from the bears 38 yard line. The Saints seem to come out in a formation to show a single high safety set, man under with Lattimore covering the near side WR. Trubisky puts a WR into motion to bunch on the near side which (below) prompts Lattimore to look back at Marcus Williams to request help. Since the Saints are showing blitz up front, putting the man in motion allows Trubisky to determine whether the CB's are playing man or zone and begin to make his pre-snap read.
The Saints now show zone coverage with Lattimore giving space off of the line of scrimmage. Marcus Williams comes down into a closer zone coverage but you can clearly see him trying to vocalize (below) the coverage, after the WR motions to the near side, to ensure nothing gets over top on a cross route down the field.
Trubisky keeps his eyes towards the middle/left portion of the field just enough to keep Ken Crawley engaged, leaving the zone behind him uncovered.
Below you can see Crawley trying to recover the zone but the catch had already been made by McBride who ran to the 17 yard line of the Saints for a gain of 45.
This breakdown in assignment or communication is on Crawley. Underneath coverage by Kenny Vacarro and AJ Klein was in tact, and Lattimore was glued to his receiver.
A positive pre-snap play here from the defense that ultimately produces a first down for Chicago.
Nearly Halftime, 3rd and 11 to go from the Saints 34. You can see the gears from watching film during the week churning in AJ Klein's head...he sees the motion to the far side with Vacarro in two, which tells Trubisky the defense is in man coverage.
You can actually see on film when something clicks in Klein's head to change the coverage, pulling Robertson to the near side to cover the RB out of the backfield and he shifts over to cover the TE. From first glance it seems like the communication is there and the Saints have adjusted with Klein's direction.
Klein's pre-snap read puts the Saints into a Cover 2 man adjustment.
Craig Robertson makes the correct read on the play breaking on the ball instantly. To me Trubisky would not have had much of a choice in this play regardless as it looks as thought the Saints coverage is initially in tact.
Unfortunately, Robertson is blocked just enough and misses the tackle in the backfield allowing Howard to pick up 12 yards and a first down.
6
Posted on 10/30/17 at 10:48 am to Bduhon55
Good work on this! I think the big issues with yesterday was miscommunication. Seemed like every other play, someone wasn't where they were supposed to be then began pointing it out to someone else. Need to fix that up bc a more experienced QB will toast us more.
Still tho, good work with this stuff
Still tho, good work with this stuff
Posted on 10/30/17 at 11:01 am to LlyodChristmas
I noticed in the Dome during the long pass on Williams, he was yelling with his hands up before the snap...I am not sure if he new the defense
Posted on 10/30/17 at 11:14 am to saints5021
Some of the gashes on defense were painful. Ya prolly wouldn't get by allowing those (or 3 fumbles) against a better team. What I was encouraged with yesterday was that even though there were the gashes, on a whole, they still looked good. They made more stops the gives. Finally, PLAYMAKING! I really thought Lattimore was gonna be a day one #1 starter. He has exceeded that and is the front runner for DROY, possibly overall ROY by the year's end. Crawley shutdown? I dunno how it happened but it is. Continuing at this rate will be the best CB duo in Saints history evah!
Posted on 10/30/17 at 11:17 am to Bduhon55
Great breakdown right there.
If the D can clean up a few of these big plays, limiting them to once or twice a week instead of 3 or 4, we will be in great shape.
If the D can clean up a few of these big plays, limiting them to once or twice a week instead of 3 or 4, we will be in great shape.
Posted on 10/30/17 at 11:27 am to saints5021
quote:
I am not sure if he new the defense
Williams did. It was cover 3. Crawley had the left deep portion (if looking from the offense's POV). Lattimore was telling Williams how he was adjusting to the motion.
Crawley got caught sleeping in no man's land and didn't reach his spot, forcing Williams to come over from his middle third to make up for it.
The other two big plays were the goal line run where Te'o cut in trying to make a play instead of playing his gap, and the QB scramble where the DTs (iirc) got too wide and left the middle open to run through.
Posted on 10/30/17 at 11:29 am to blueslover
Taking out the big run Howard averaged 2.4(?) ypc on the rest of them. If was really the big goal line slip up and the broken containment that hurt us. Howard had a couple of others here and there but we mostly held him in check.
Posted on 10/30/17 at 11:38 am to Bduhon55
If #10 would have thrown a somewhat accurate ball on the lattimore interception, it would have been a touchdown. No doubt.
This post was edited on 10/30/17 at 11:40 am
Posted on 10/30/17 at 12:21 pm to Bduhon55
Nice!
Game went how I expected. Mediocre team with a rookie QB. Kind of a classic trap game for us
Game went how I expected. Mediocre team with a rookie QB. Kind of a classic trap game for us
Posted on 10/30/17 at 12:51 pm to AlabamasSalaryCap
quote:
If #10 would have thrown a somewhat accurate ball on the lattimore interception, it would have been a touchdown. No doubt.
Did you watch the coaches tape or something? From the broadcast it is almost impossible to see anything that would make you think that. The defenders are playing the ball, it was a zone scheme. You cannot see it from the regular broadcast but fitting it into the WR right there would have been a very tough throw it seems. Almost impossible to get that up and down.
Posted on 10/30/17 at 2:25 pm to Mystery
I have to say that after rewatching that play multiple times this morning it seemed as though that assessment would be correct. He had only one man to beat and that was the defender up covering the other post route. I have been encouraged with Lattimore's play so far, but yesterday he seemed to play more zone than he has played in total the past 4 games and at a second glance he didnt seem to play all as well. Still he had a good game but at times in man coverage he has broken on a route or made a play on the ball and a few times yesterday he seemed hesitant to make an impact play on his zone...the ball he intercepted was thrown high and behind the intended receiver almost directly to Lattimore in a spot he should not have been in.
Posted on 10/30/17 at 3:03 pm to Mystery
quote:
Did you watch the coaches tape or something? From the broadcast it is almost impossible to see anything that would make you think that. The defenders are playing the ball, it was a zone scheme. You cannot see it from the regular broadcast but fitting it into the WR right there would have been a very tough throw it seems. Almost impossible to get that up and down.
I mean Just look for yourself. If wide arse open Mcbride is able to catch that over the head throw, he gone.
Posted on 10/30/17 at 3:24 pm to AlabamasSalaryCap
I have watched that. He is not open until the ball is 10 yards downfield. You can't even see where the safety and Shon are before the ball leaves his hand. Chances are they were in better position. This is a zone defense as I said. They moved when the ball was thrown.
Have you seen the coaches tape? Because that video does not show you if he was open.
If you freeze it at 24 secs it looks like they are in good position and this is after they already reacted to the ball being thrown.
My point is you can find somebody wide open almost always in a zone scheme after the ball was thrown.
Have you seen the coaches tape? Because that video does not show you if he was open.
If you freeze it at 24 secs it looks like they are in good position and this is after they already reacted to the ball being thrown.
My point is you can find somebody wide open almost always in a zone scheme after the ball was thrown.
This post was edited on 10/30/17 at 3:26 pm
Posted on 10/30/17 at 5:23 pm to Bduhon55
PFF had Crawley as the highest rated player on the field yesterday, over Lattimore.
LINK
The top five graded players for the Saints are all on defense which is starting to be a trend. This is a testament to some of the offensive struggles but more so the way the defense is playing lights out during the 5 game win streak.
quote:
TOP 5 GRADES:
CB Ken Crawley, 87.9 overall grade
CB Marshon Lattimore, 85.8 overall grade
DI David Onyemata, 85.5 overall grade
DI Sheldon Rankins, 84.6 overall grade
LB A.J. Klein, 82.4 overall grade
LINK
The top five graded players for the Saints are all on defense which is starting to be a trend. This is a testament to some of the offensive struggles but more so the way the defense is playing lights out during the 5 game win streak.
This post was edited on 10/30/17 at 5:26 pm
Posted on 10/30/17 at 6:40 pm to Bduhon55
quote:
I have to say that after rewatching that play multiple times this morning it seemed as though that assessment would be correct.
What position do you coach?
Posted on 10/30/17 at 6:54 pm to GeauxBayouBengals
Read the write up on his grade. He was only lower than crawley because he missed that tackle when the qb scrambled.
In fact they only targeted him twice. He got a pass break up and a int. No idea what you guys are talking about.
In fact they only targeted him twice. He got a pass break up and a int. No idea what you guys are talking about.
Posted on 10/31/17 at 1:22 am to theicebox
I think the Saints have had their worst results in Zone. I understand the premise of a zone, but I also understand that often the zone creates holes in the coverage.
In playing the Bears the announcer must have commented 4-5 times about how well the Bears play the zone. As in the fact that they will drop to an area or retreat to a zone but quickly respond to those opposing players within that area.
This is done because of two things
A) Awareness of the area
B) Route Recognition
If a team sends a guy in motion and the defense does not respond then the offense knows it is a zone.
The defenders should also know we the holes in the zone are going to be and have an understanding of what routes receivers will run to get into those holes.
In playing the Bears the announcer must have commented 4-5 times about how well the Bears play the zone. As in the fact that they will drop to an area or retreat to a zone but quickly respond to those opposing players within that area.
This is done because of two things
A) Awareness of the area
B) Route Recognition
If a team sends a guy in motion and the defense does not respond then the offense knows it is a zone.
The defenders should also know we the holes in the zone are going to be and have an understanding of what routes receivers will run to get into those holes.
Posted on 10/31/17 at 6:29 am to Breesus
I don’t coach any position, something I pointed out in my OP. I’m simply stating if you rewatch the interception play it’s farily easy to see that had the ball been on target and on time, there was a clear lane to the end zone. Don’t make it seem like I’m claiming to be a football genius I’m simply watching the game over as a fan and trying to understand some of the finer details of my favorite team.
Page 1 of 3
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News