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Message
2012-2016, How different is this team committing to Mark Ingram as the lead back?
Posted on 11/15/17 at 8:08 pm
Posted on 11/15/17 at 8:08 pm
Its easy to look back now and say this, but had we not let our line deteriorate and continue to put all of the offensive pressure on Brees, how different do the last 5 years look?
Part of me thinks it had to get this bad before Payton realized he had to change his ways to get back to peak 2009-2011 times. But I have to ask myself, did Ingram have this in himself all this time or did he also need the challenge to rise to the occasion?
Part of me thinks it had to get this bad before Payton realized he had to change his ways to get back to peak 2009-2011 times. But I have to ask myself, did Ingram have this in himself all this time or did he also need the challenge to rise to the occasion?
This post was edited on 11/15/17 at 8:17 pm
7
Posted on 11/15/17 at 8:29 pm to Brettesaurus Rex
There was a recent thread about reinvesting in the Oline and how it's paid off, and I mentioned how as far back as pre 2013 draft I was pounding the table for a LT and needing better Olinemen in general.
It clearly had an adverse affect on us and our efficiency over that period, but it also wasn't the only reason we struggled (defense, defense, defense).
But still, had we had a better run blocking line we could have grinded some more and gave our defense more of a rest. It also definitely would have helped close out a few of those games.
We may not have been a dominant team the last few years, but I think we easily would have been 9-7 or 10-6 each of the last 3 years when you look at games we couldn't close out.
It clearly had an adverse affect on us and our efficiency over that period, but it also wasn't the only reason we struggled (defense, defense, defense).
But still, had we had a better run blocking line we could have grinded some more and gave our defense more of a rest. It also definitely would have helped close out a few of those games.
We may not have been a dominant team the last few years, but I think we easily would have been 9-7 or 10-6 each of the last 3 years when you look at games we couldn't close out.
Posted on 11/15/17 at 9:32 pm to Brettesaurus Rex
HAs very little to do with ingram imo. Kamara’s average is also ridiculous. It has more to do with the offensive line
Posted on 11/15/17 at 9:46 pm to Brettesaurus Rex
Ingram has been Ingram for a couple of years now.
Did you see the coaching changes?
Did you see the scouting dept and drafting changes?
Did you see the youngest team in the NFL get older?
Did you see some good luck for once?
Did you see the coaching changes?
Did you see the scouting dept and drafting changes?
Did you see the youngest team in the NFL get older?
Did you see some good luck for once?
Posted on 11/15/17 at 10:48 pm to goatmilker
We are getting some things to go our way, for sure; but this is not the lucky horseshoe team that we had in 2009. This is so much a non-Saints team I don't even know what I am watching this year, tbh.
Double-digit leads and Brees not throwing every down? Smart and effective run plays? Mixed play-calls with different personnel packages? Solid and stingy defense?
I still want to see them win some tough games before I cast my vote, but I really like this team and what the coaching staff is doing this year.
Double-digit leads and Brees not throwing every down? Smart and effective run plays? Mixed play-calls with different personnel packages? Solid and stingy defense?
I still want to see them win some tough games before I cast my vote, but I really like this team and what the coaching staff is doing this year.
This post was edited on 11/15/17 at 10:49 pm
Posted on 11/15/17 at 10:51 pm to Brettesaurus Rex
You guys gave me shite in the past when I said the OL last year had more to do with MI’s YPC but it’s true and AK proves that, to an extent.
That said I am a MI fan this year, more than last year.
That said I am a MI fan this year, more than last year.
Posted on 11/15/17 at 11:01 pm to t00f
He had one of the highest numbers for yards after contact last year, and he has one of the highest numbers this year.
Yes the line has something to do with it because 2012-2015 all of our backs were being hit in the backfield often. ANY back is going to struggle when getting hit in the backfield constantly.
So yes now that we have a good line that doesn't allow penetration Ingram and Kamara can hit the holes and make people miss at the second level.
But let's not act like both of these backs are doing this mostly because of the line. The line is giving them room to run AND they are making people miss and breaking tackles and gaining those extra yards. Both are VERY good backs.
Yes the line has something to do with it because 2012-2015 all of our backs were being hit in the backfield often. ANY back is going to struggle when getting hit in the backfield constantly.
So yes now that we have a good line that doesn't allow penetration Ingram and Kamara can hit the holes and make people miss at the second level.
But let's not act like both of these backs are doing this mostly because of the line. The line is giving them room to run AND they are making people miss and breaking tackles and gaining those extra yards. Both are VERY good backs.
This post was edited on 11/15/17 at 11:03 pm
Posted on 11/15/17 at 11:07 pm to Brettesaurus Rex
I heard a clip of some former players, now talking heads, I think that it was Shannon Sharpe but it could have been Cris Carter. Anyway, he said that after Ingram works out in their facility during the offseason and the day after the Saints signed AP, Ingram came in and was a different person. They said he needed that push to not lose his job and be the back that he is today.
Posted on 11/15/17 at 11:21 pm to bonethug0108
Scheme and planning have helped quite a bit too.
Take a look at this article if you have not already
Saints film room: How New Orleans used motion to break open Buffalo's run defense
“
Ted Ginn Jr. deserves a game ball for his performance in the running game against the Buffalo Bills on Sunday.
The New Orleans Saints wide receiver didn’t have a single carry during the 47-10 win, but his presence on the field got the Saints running backs at least an extra 90 yards. He was the ultimate decoy, and the Bills never figured out how to adjust to his presence on the field.
Depending on your allegiance, you either laughed at how often New Orleans used the same motion to freeze the Buffalo linebackers and get the looks they wanted in the running game, or you cringed as the defense was manipulated by Ginn play after play. For whatever reason, this wrinkle unlocked something in the Bills defense and was one of the reasons the Saints rushed for 298 yards.
It started early. One of the first examples came with 7:46 remaining in the first quarter on a fourth-and-1 play. The Saints came out in “11 personnel,” with two receivers on one side of the formation and tight end Michael Hoomanawanui and wide receiver Willie Snead tight on the other. Ginn motioned toward the tight side of the formation, looping behind Mark Ingram.“
LINK
Take a look at this article if you have not already
Saints film room: How New Orleans used motion to break open Buffalo's run defense
“
Ted Ginn Jr. deserves a game ball for his performance in the running game against the Buffalo Bills on Sunday.
The New Orleans Saints wide receiver didn’t have a single carry during the 47-10 win, but his presence on the field got the Saints running backs at least an extra 90 yards. He was the ultimate decoy, and the Bills never figured out how to adjust to his presence on the field.
Depending on your allegiance, you either laughed at how often New Orleans used the same motion to freeze the Buffalo linebackers and get the looks they wanted in the running game, or you cringed as the defense was manipulated by Ginn play after play. For whatever reason, this wrinkle unlocked something in the Bills defense and was one of the reasons the Saints rushed for 298 yards.
It started early. One of the first examples came with 7:46 remaining in the first quarter on a fourth-and-1 play. The Saints came out in “11 personnel,” with two receivers on one side of the formation and tight end Michael Hoomanawanui and wide receiver Willie Snead tight on the other. Ginn motioned toward the tight side of the formation, looping behind Mark Ingram.“
LINK
Posted on 11/16/17 at 3:55 am to t00f
True but there's still:
Ingram had one of the highest numbers for yards after contact last year, and he has one of the highest numbers this year.
And Kamara has a good bit of forces missed tackles.
So while the line, scheme, etc. is getting them to the second level, they are getting themselves to the third level and beyond at a good clip too.
Ingram had one of the highest numbers for yards after contact last year, and he has one of the highest numbers this year.
And Kamara has a good bit of forces missed tackles.
So while the line, scheme, etc. is getting them to the second level, they are getting themselves to the third level and beyond at a good clip too.
Posted on 11/16/17 at 7:50 am to Brettesaurus Rex
Honestly our Defense finally being worth a crap is the biggest reason we are not as heavily relying on Brees to win us games.
I think the Saints have always been effective running the ball but when you are constantly playing from behind, it forces you into pass heavy offense.
Teams will never stack the box to stop the run with Brees at QB bc they know he will pick them apart. Now that we are finally playing from ahead we can focus on running the ball to close out games.
I think the Saints have always been effective running the ball but when you are constantly playing from behind, it forces you into pass heavy offense.
Teams will never stack the box to stop the run with Brees at QB bc they know he will pick them apart. Now that we are finally playing from ahead we can focus on running the ball to close out games.
Posted on 11/16/17 at 7:57 am to STEVED00
Bills game:
Saints Bills
Possession 41:23 18:37
Saints Bills
Possession 41:23 18:37
Posted on 11/16/17 at 9:10 am to STEVED00
I want to say when I looked it up in 2013 and 2015 we averaged under 4 ypc as a team. Iirc also in 2012 and 2014 we averaged 4.3 ypc both years, and while better it still isn't good enough to be relied upon, especially with the high percent of runs for a loss we had.
It was a combination of an inconsistent running game and a poor pass defense that lead us to those records.
It was a combination of an inconsistent running game and a poor pass defense that lead us to those records.
Posted on 11/16/17 at 9:15 am to STEVED00
quote:
I think the Saints have always been effective running the ball
I don't know how truthful this is
Posted on 11/16/17 at 9:25 am to Brettesaurus Rex
Posted on 11/16/17 at 9:42 am to TideSaint
quote:
did Ingram have this in himself all this time
Always had it in him
You must have missed his first 2 years as a Saint.
Posted on 11/16/17 at 1:53 pm to Brettesaurus Rex
Well Ingram has been the main RB the last 5 yrs so let’s look at his ypc
2012 -3.9
2013 -4.9
2014 -4.3
2015 -4.6
2016 -5.1
2017 -4.7
I’d say those are pretty good average yards per carry.
Saints would abandon the run bc they were playing catch up and had to conserve clock
2012 -3.9
2013 -4.9
2014 -4.3
2015 -4.6
2016 -5.1
2017 -4.7
I’d say those are pretty good average yards per carry.
Saints would abandon the run bc they were playing catch up and had to conserve clock
This post was edited on 11/16/17 at 2:07 pm
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