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Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
3840 posts

re: When is Griff honeymoon period over?
quote:

AD didn't have to be an even good passer b/c he was much better in his 2nd year.


Yes he did actually. Some of you really have some short memories.

AD’s early time as a player was as a low skilled garbage man and even as he began to develop his post game it was hindered because he would have trouble in the fourth quarter because he couldn’t reliably exploit double teams with his passing so we would have empty possessions, lose close games, or have to rely on less than ideal alternatives like Jrue and Evans to lead in crunch time because AD was so slow to develop in that capacity consistently.

Zion has played 34 games, CALM THE frick DOWN, you whining because he ain’t year three AD and you sound unhinged.

AD averaged 13 fricking points and 7 rebounds in his first 34 games, shooting barely above 70% from the ft line and only getting there 3 times a game. Zion is on an all time great pace for a player in his position in the league, all despite an offseason and schedule where we have had like two full practices since the season started and a shortened offseason that coach admitted we could barely focus on offense because of time constraints. seriously calm it the frick down with this silliness
This post was edited on 1/16 at 9:33 am


bonethug0180
New Orleans Saints Fan
Avondale
Member since Jul 2018
3768 posts

re: When is Griff honeymoon period over?
It's insane to even compare AD and Zion. Not even close to the same player. Honestly it would be harder to get 2 more opposite guys called power forwards.


SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
379005 posts

re: When is Griff honeymoon period over?
years/age is much better comparison than games played. you're comparing first year, 19 year old AD to 2nd year, 20 year old Zion. it's not fair

ONLY this board uses games played b/c it makes Zion look better, basically

Zion has regressed from his rookie year, when he had even less prep time, Gentry as his coach, and he was fat AND recovering from a knee injury. if this doesn't concern you, then i don't know what would


Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
3840 posts

re: When is Griff honeymoon period over?
quote:

It’s why the Lakers play a center with AD so he can leak out. It’s why you see AD have games where he gets 4 rebounds.



No they play a center next to AD because he’s a fricking pussy.



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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
379005 posts

re: When is Griff honeymoon period over?
i was going to do a comp to Blake Griffin (who many people on here compared to Zion) b/c Griffin missed his entire 1st year and looked about as good as Zion in their respective year 2. he had ZERO games going into year 2. games don't really matter as much as this board is making them out to


bonethug0180
New Orleans Saints Fan
Avondale
Member since Jul 2018
3768 posts

re: When is Griff honeymoon period over?
Lack of a true offseason and very limited training camp/preseason have to be looked at too though. As well as a new head coach. Also VERY little time between games.

You can't just say well it's year 2. This is a very different than normal year for several reasons.


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Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
3840 posts

re: When is Griff honeymoon period over?
quote:

Zion has regressed from his rookie year, when he had even less prep time, Gentry as his coach, and he was fat AND recovering from a knee injury. if this doesn't concern you, then i don't know what would


He’s played ten games in a season where they couldn’t focus on offense due to time constraints and is still outplaying where AD was this time AD’s second season, a second season that AD was afforded 40-50 additional games coming into and an actual full offseason with the same coach compared to what Zion has had afforded to him.

AD ten games into his second season was averaging 48% shooting and 20ppg with 55% TS% compared to Zion’s 22ppg and 57% TS%.

Seriously calm it the frick down with the doom
posting and get some perspective


SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
379005 posts

re: When is Griff honeymoon period over?
quote:

the doom



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Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
3840 posts

re: When is Griff honeymoon period over?
Is there a more iconic signal that a TD baw has lost an argument than the one emoji post?

Seriously, go breathe into a bag a for a few minutes and calm the hell down. Zion is playing and trending on a historical pace and is doing so under incredibly non-ideal circumstances and in a system that isn’t catering to stuff his stat sheets.


CP3forMVP
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Nov 2010
8596 posts

re: When is Griff honeymoon period over?
quote:

Keep in mind lots of players fail to exhibit good defense early in their careers.


I think that’s kind of the point, I don’t think anyone expected Zion to be this huge positive on defense from his first day in the league. But I think everyone expected him to display great effort on that end, which so far hasn’t been the case, and I personally don’t think there’s this this switch you can press to suddenly start playing hard.
This post was edited on 1/16 at 10:06 am


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supe12sta12z
Tiger Town
Member since Apr 2012
4077 posts

re: When is Griff honeymoon period over?
Zion is creating his own offense at a much higher rate than AD did early in his career. AD was a rolling big who got a lot of offense assisted.

I think people don't acknowledge that Zion's ability to create off the dribble and finish through contact at an extremely high level at this stage of his career. AD did not have this ability early on. Took 4-5 years before he started to be comfortable on ball.

People always focus on the flaws but never account for the bad crowded offense that he plays in which isn't ideal for his offensive abilities. You give Zion Prime Evans, Gordon, Holiday, and Ryno I bet Zion would be a top 10 scorer in the league.

Zion should be criticized for his defense but the offensive criticism is exaggerated.


SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
379005 posts

re: When is Griff honeymoon period over?
I'm laughing at your strawman argument. I even made a post last page explaining how this wasn't a "doom" assessment

We thought we were getting a LeBron but it looks like we're getting a Blake Griffin instead. This isn't the end of the world, especially with Ingram developing like he is, but it's simply not why we are excited when we won the lottery. Nobody is saying Zion is a bad player and that he's projecting to remain bad, it's just that his expected arc is substantially lower now than when we drafted him.

And, to go back to my first post, a lot of this has to do with the choice of coach. I don't know if he is even an improvement in Zion's development from Gentry, to be honest. Zion looks lost on offense and defense this year in a way he never did last year


Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
3840 posts

re: When is Griff honeymoon period over?
Again, the kid has played 34 games across two coaches and is on a historical pace. All with a shortened offseason and condensed schedule and you are attempting to call him a disappointment and not who we thought he was.

Step back and get some perspective.

If we are at game 30 and Zion looks lost and hasn’t added any wrinkles we can have the start of this conversation, same with Gundy, but not ten games into a new season when we all knew, or had the capacity to know, that the offense was going to be a work in progress and that we had a very tough early schedule, toughest in the league. And that practice time would be few and far between.

A couple games we should have won that we didn’t, but that is also what happens with new teams that are not able to get fully acclimated.

People blowing up after a loss to the best team in the league on their home court with home cooking to go with it, silly
This post was edited on 1/16 at 10:20 am


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Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
3840 posts

re: When is Griff honeymoon period over?
quote:



Zion is creating his own offense at a much higher rate than AD did early in his career. AD was a rolling big who got a lot of offense assisted.

I think people don't acknowledge that Zion's ability to create off the dribble and finish through contact at an extremely high level at this stage of his career. AD did not have this ability early on. Took 4-5 years before he started to be comfortable on ball.

People always focus on the flaws but never account for the bad crowded offense that he plays in which isn't ideal for his offensive abilities. You give Zion Prime Evans, Gordon, Holiday, and Ryno I bet Zion would be a top 10 scorer in the league.

Zion should be criticized for his defense but the offensive criticism is exaggerated.



Bingo


Split2874
LSU Fan
Mandeville
Member since Jul 2012
2055 posts

re: When is Griff honeymoon period over?
I have been enjoying this season. I have no expectations for this season except development and evaluation.

I dont recall having this much star potential on a team. Watching these kids starting to grow has been fun.

Jaxon has looked much better the past couple of games. (I think that is bc we have Steven Adams)

I really like NAW running this team. Seems like we play harder. I know he going to be up and down but let him develop

BI I feel like this is the season most playets have after they become an AllStar the first time. Now he is the focal point of the other team. He got to figure this next level. It will probably take all season

Same with Zion. He is being treated like and allstar by Pros new experience. I just want to see him improve. (Especially on defense)

I really like Steven Adams. I think he is helping this team behind the scene.

But I have to say Lozo, JJ, Bledsoe, Meli have been very disappointing.

I have been OK with SVG I am giving him a pass as well. Weird times and a young new team.

This post was edited on 1/16 at 11:41 am


Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
3840 posts

re: When is Griff honeymoon period over?
John Wall actually said and gave the right emotion of absurdity the other day. Basically told a reporter how absurd it is to write these narratives ten games into the season under such odd circumstance.

Toronto is 3-8, Miami, the EC champions are 4-6, Denver, that made it to the WC finals are .500. Should Nick Nurse, Mike Malone, and Erik Spoelstra be pariahed and fired?







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