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Started By
Message
re: The Pros and Cons of Hiring Ainge's Right Hand Man
Posted on 2/16/19 at 8:45 am to TigerinATL
Posted on 2/16/19 at 8:45 am to TigerinATL
quote:
You’re going to go from a black GM and black head coach to a white GM and the odds are a white coach simply because there are more of them in the candidate pool. I don’t think it’s a big deal long term but if you announce this in the wrong dead news period it could become a thing. Keeping Gentry on as a consultant makes even more sense in that context.
Unless you hire Ferry, what specifically is the talking point? I think you’re digging too much on that one
0
Posted on 2/16/19 at 8:56 am to corndeaux
quote:
they should hire the best candidates. they should conduct a wide search for those guys in the FO and then with the guys to be head coach.
I'm not saying otherwise. This thread is about pros and cons, I listed a potential con. It is completely optics based and not merit based, but just because it's about optics doesn't mean it doesn't have merit. And that's where I'll leave it because I didn't plan to derail this thread.
This post was edited on 2/16/19 at 8:59 am
Posted on 2/16/19 at 9:06 am to TigerinATL
sure. i get that. i really do and i really think the Pels have to be aware of how this plays out in the media because their rep and perception is garbage.
but isn't the prevailing optic/narrative from anyone who pays attention going to be that Zarren is the most qualified and best candidate available?
but isn't the prevailing optic/narrative from anyone who pays attention going to be that Zarren is the most qualified and best candidate available?
This post was edited on 2/16/19 at 9:07 am
Posted on 2/16/19 at 9:14 am to corndeaux
That's a fair point and I think the biggest defense will be to cast a wide net and make sure it's a thorough process. If I were running this and my goal was to build a winner I'd interview as many people from winning backgrounds as I had time for. Even if you don't hire the assistant GM from Golden State he might give you an idea on something they do there that you'll want to duplicate with the Pels.
Posted on 2/16/19 at 9:28 am to corndeaux
It won't be the main story, but it will be part of a story - at some point. At some time a story will come out about how the Rooney Rules in't working, how all major sports are falling back into bad practices, etc etc -- and the Pelicans will be cited as a team that went from a black GM and coach in the South to two white ones
Its not a reason to make or not make any decision, but unfortunately these are the kind of conversations billion dollar businesses have to have and optics they have to worry about, so I am glad Tiger brought it up.
This is what a full conversation looks like. As opposed to the standard, "X guy sucks - look at the trades he made!" and "Y guy is better because of this thing he wrote at the Sloan Conference one day!"
There are hundreds of X factors that go into decisions like these. And its not a bad thing for us to discuss these little things.
Its not a reason to make or not make any decision, but unfortunately these are the kind of conversations billion dollar businesses have to have and optics they have to worry about, so I am glad Tiger brought it up.
This is what a full conversation looks like. As opposed to the standard, "X guy sucks - look at the trades he made!" and "Y guy is better because of this thing he wrote at the Sloan Conference one day!"
There are hundreds of X factors that go into decisions like these. And its not a bad thing for us to discuss these little things.
Posted on 2/16/19 at 9:31 am to Crewz
True but the last 3 pels head coaches have been black and demps(when quite a few thought he should've been fired ages ago) was around for nearly a decade
It's a thought but one that should be near the bottom
It's a thought but one that should be near the bottom
Posted on 2/16/19 at 9:35 am to LosLobos111
How many times do you guys have to see that it doesn't matter what the facts are -- narratives win the day.
Think about how upset you guys were by numerous articles the past few weeks. How you thought it was unfair that the NBA was pressuring the Pels to play AD, etc etc
And you guys always cry, "They are wrong, here are the facts!" or "Thats not fair, because of this and that!"
It doesn't matter. Narratives trump facts. Perception is reality. You think people in PR say, "Yeah, this could hurt us but once the reporters know all the facts, they will right a balanced story and show the public that we weren't in the wrong in any way"
You guys have seen the poor narratives hundreds of times and yet, for some reason, you don't think it will happen the next time.
Think about how upset you guys were by numerous articles the past few weeks. How you thought it was unfair that the NBA was pressuring the Pels to play AD, etc etc
And you guys always cry, "They are wrong, here are the facts!" or "Thats not fair, because of this and that!"
It doesn't matter. Narratives trump facts. Perception is reality. You think people in PR say, "Yeah, this could hurt us but once the reporters know all the facts, they will right a balanced story and show the public that we weren't in the wrong in any way"
You guys have seen the poor narratives hundreds of times and yet, for some reason, you don't think it will happen the next time.
Posted on 2/16/19 at 9:36 am to Crewz
Some of the top first timer candidates are African American - Stackhouse, Jarron Collins, Steve Silas, Lloyd Pierce, Adrian Griffin.
Really most of the retread candidates are white.
Really most of the retread candidates are white.
Posted on 2/16/19 at 9:39 am to Crewz
They named Ferry as the interim GM. If the organization was legitimately concerned about a negative impact from this type of narrative, they wouldn’t have done that. Race won’t be a factor in the decision making process.
Posted on 2/16/19 at 9:46 am to NOFOX
Tiger said it would be something he could see as being on the con side. He didn't say they wouldn't hire a white person.
Posted on 2/16/19 at 9:53 am to Crewz
quote:
Tiger said it would be something he could see as being on the con side. He didn't say they wouldn't hire a white person.
I just think it is a moot point. In electing to name Ferry as interim GM and effectively putting him in the running in so doing, they have signaled that the race narrative is not something that will factor into their decision making.
If they cared enough about the race narrative to impact their decision making, they would have named Booth the interim GM and leaked that he will get a shot at the job. Honestly they signaled that race won’t play a factor when they hired Ferry as an adviser in the first place.
This post was edited on 2/16/19 at 9:53 am
Posted on 2/16/19 at 10:05 am to NOFOX
In life, there are small things.
I know that on message boards, there have to big these big, bold proclamations. It's all about a guys record or what history he has with which organization. And we all claim to know the best person for the job based on these facts, despite never having met or spoken to the person.
But in life, there are small things that are realities that have to be considered. They don't necessarily have to lead to any big decision or proclamation, but you still consider and discuss them nonetheless.
I know that on message boards, there have to big these big, bold proclamations. It's all about a guys record or what history he has with which organization. And we all claim to know the best person for the job based on these facts, despite never having met or spoken to the person.
But in life, there are small things that are realities that have to be considered. They don't necessarily have to lead to any big decision or proclamation, but you still consider and discuss them nonetheless.
Posted on 2/16/19 at 10:08 am to Crewz
quote:
But in life, there are small things that are realities that have to be considered. They don't necessarily have to lead to any big decision or proclamation, but you still consider and discuss them nonetheless.
That’s deep and all, but you are missing the point: the Pels have discussed this little thing and dismissed it already. So we can bring up that the media may write a race story that will go nowhere, but it is inconsequential.
Posted on 2/16/19 at 10:13 am to NOFOX
Okay. Well since you already talked to Gayle and Mickey and they told you it's a non issue, let us move on!!
Posted on 2/16/19 at 10:15 am to Crewz
quote:
Okay. Well since you already talked to Gayle and Mickey and they told you it's a non issue, let us move on!!
Gladly.
Posted on 2/16/19 at 10:16 am to Crewz
quote:
C'mon.... lets get a little more in depth than this. I give you guys an opportunity to essentially write out a detailed pro and con article with nuance and this is what I get back??
Calm down MM. The only person that’s been fired from a sports writing job on this board is you
Posted on 2/16/19 at 10:31 am to Crewz
quote:
some time a story will come out about how the Rooney Rules in't working, how all major sports are falling back into bad practices, etc etc -- and the Pelicans will be cited as a team that went from a black GM and coach in the South to two white ones
So, we have no idea who Zarren would hire to be the coach. What if, because they are the best candidate, he hires a black coach? Or taps the first woman head coach for the same reason?
To me, the article to be written isn't about hiring, but getting the bona fides to build a resume to be hired. Asked it earlier; who is the black Zarren? Who are the minority GM candidates? Seriously. I don't know and am curious. We can rattle off plenty of highly regarded minority coaching candidates, but not execs.
As the league moves more and more into data and more sophisticated analysis and sees that as a necessity in execs, do minorities have access to jobs with teams doing that or is the path to the FO mainly being an ex-player?
It is something worth discussing. and I don't think ATL is wrong to bring it up, but this narrative's existence, as it relates to the Pels, hinges on the process the Pels use.
If they announce Zarren tomorrow, then I'm with him and you here. Those articles should be written because the search was bogus
If they do, by all accounts, a thorough and comprehensive search consulting with many different voices and examining candidates of all backgrounds, races, genders, etc and they get a Zarren or a Ferry, then there isn't much of a narrative there. The question is how much do you trust Benson to do a thorough and thoughtful job?
This post was edited on 2/16/19 at 10:39 am
Posted on 2/16/19 at 10:34 am to corndeaux
And of course, as I write this, a friend from ATL just texted with "Ferry as interim gm? We have much to discuss"
lol
lol
Posted on 2/16/19 at 10:36 am to corndeaux
Now that Boston is on his list. I think hiring Zarren makes other teams know they have to submit a crazy bid to beat Boston.
Posted on 2/16/19 at 10:40 am to corndeaux
Trajan Langdon is your minority candidate
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