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Started By
Message
re: Realistic off-season wish list (Draft/FA/Trade)
Posted on 9/19/20 at 1:13 pm to Soggymoss
Posted on 9/19/20 at 1:13 pm to Soggymoss
Signing Giles, he stays healthy with a further developing Jackson Hayes and another defensive minded center would be more than enough to replace what Favors brought to the table. Giles is an excellent back door passer and could even facilitate some offensive sets from the low block. He finds cutters and shooters on a regular. Reddick and Nesmith would flourish with Giles on a 2nd team. If it was Bey drafted, Giles to Bey back door cuts would be a thing of beauty.
Worth a look to go see his highlights from this past season and majority will agree with this assessment. Giles is definitely a starting, caliber Center. Health has been his only concern. Was thought to be a consensus #1 pick before the injuries, but he is ready to breakout. Hands down, better than Wendell Carter for the Bulls. Similar to an Al Horford. He should be a priority signing, imo.
Giles is not a project! He is ready to contribute to a playoff team NOW! Wouldnt be suprised if he became an All-Star player (in East, of course) during his next contract. His per 36 is basically what you would hope Favors would do, without the bloated contract.
It is imperative to identify players who outperform their contracts, especially when we start having to pay max money to Ingram, Zion and possibly Lonzo, if he plays up to his potential. Giles is a player who will outperform his next contract. Essentially you would swap out Darius Miller for Giles and reap the benefits. At worse, its a contract that's easy to package. Win-win.
In addition, offer Jeramie Grant what you would of given Favors and you are instantly a better defensive team, without using up additional cap space and built for the future.
Worth a look to go see his highlights from this past season and majority will agree with this assessment. Giles is definitely a starting, caliber Center. Health has been his only concern. Was thought to be a consensus #1 pick before the injuries, but he is ready to breakout. Hands down, better than Wendell Carter for the Bulls. Similar to an Al Horford. He should be a priority signing, imo.
Giles is not a project! He is ready to contribute to a playoff team NOW! Wouldnt be suprised if he became an All-Star player (in East, of course) during his next contract. His per 36 is basically what you would hope Favors would do, without the bloated contract.
It is imperative to identify players who outperform their contracts, especially when we start having to pay max money to Ingram, Zion and possibly Lonzo, if he plays up to his potential. Giles is a player who will outperform his next contract. Essentially you would swap out Darius Miller for Giles and reap the benefits. At worse, its a contract that's easy to package. Win-win.
In addition, offer Jeramie Grant what you would of given Favors and you are instantly a better defensive team, without using up additional cap space and built for the future.
This post was edited on 9/19/20 at 1:37 pm
3
Posted on 9/19/20 at 1:32 pm to irvchilichill1
Again, where would you get the money for him in my scenario? I would prefer to use the MLE on someone like Crowder, then use bird rights on Favors if we're looking to compete, while still keeping my ears to the ground listening for a trade. I would possibly also try to bring in Boogie on a 1 year deal for the BAE, he wouldn't have to play huge minutes while he works his way back from his injuries, and he's the type to get into players faces and hold everyone accountable, which is something we are missing.
Giles also doesn't have any ability to stretch the floor, nor is he the rim protector that we would need imo. Now if he would come on a minimum deal then sure, but I wouldn't use either of my exceptions on him when we have Favors and his bird rights.
Giles also doesn't have any ability to stretch the floor, nor is he the rim protector that we would need imo. Now if he would come on a minimum deal then sure, but I wouldn't use either of my exceptions on him when we have Favors and his bird rights.
This post was edited on 9/19/20 at 1:34 pm
Posted on 9/19/20 at 2:55 pm to Soggymoss
Crowder could potentially be the next James Posey on this team. He was floundering in Memphis and shooting poorly before being traded and a resurgence with Miami. I'll pass and he is 30 already. Plus, I think he stays with Miami to compete for championships in the East.
Dont like trading for Bledsoe. He's solid, but I dont see him as a championship starting PG. Plays D but not a great shooter and tends to get trigger happy even when shots not falling. Decision making is average at best and doesnt perform in clutxh moments. Rather keep Lonzo and give him another year or trade at deadline.
Dont really like the Payton trade/1st round pick. Crap shoot draft this year. We dont need a half a team of rookies/sophomores. Payton is Lonzo without the vison. Pass.
Denver is showing us the blueprint to contend right away, despite being young, with savy moves, like trading for Grant, drafting Porter/Bol (risk/reward) and finding diamonds in the rough like Monte Morris/Tory Craig/Will Barton.
Hate all the "3/4 years away from competing for championships" rhetoric. Tomm is not promise. Compete now! You have 2 Top 20 players right now, with an ALL-NBA defensive guard, who at worst is an excellent trade piece to secure your Big 3, moving forward. Miami is another team proving you dont have to do a full rebuild. Drafted excellent over several years, competed and then identified and secured the All Star they needed to contend.
A healthy team last year would have likely been a Top 6 W.C. team. We are not far off as some may think and the clock is ticking on Ingram staying after his next contract begins. Many of would be future dynasties succumb to cap casualties and other unforseen reasons, i.e. 2010's Phx Suns (Nash, Stoudemire, Marion) OKC (Harden trade) Bulls (Rose, Butler, Noah), current Philly team and possibly Golden State.
No need to do a full rebuild. Getting Zion and the Lakers trade, secured 2nd star player in the deal along with maybe a 3rd/4th option in Lonzo and a 6th man in Hart, plus Hayes, allowed for us to bypass that approach, almost entirely. You dont sign/re-sign All Star caliber players in a small market when tanking or not in position to contend for chips.
This team is built for now, with a few key moves. The moves I mentioned are to have the majority of the team solidified, with only the final piece of the Big Three needing to be identified and we can contend for the next half-decade, which may be all what Zion gets out of his unique body type. Not unreasonable to assume our timeline/window is shorter than most bc Zion may not last/be All-Star caliber for a decade, if he even stays past the 2nd contract. The window is now has to be the approach.
Dont like trading for Bledsoe. He's solid, but I dont see him as a championship starting PG. Plays D but not a great shooter and tends to get trigger happy even when shots not falling. Decision making is average at best and doesnt perform in clutxh moments. Rather keep Lonzo and give him another year or trade at deadline.
Dont really like the Payton trade/1st round pick. Crap shoot draft this year. We dont need a half a team of rookies/sophomores. Payton is Lonzo without the vison. Pass.
Denver is showing us the blueprint to contend right away, despite being young, with savy moves, like trading for Grant, drafting Porter/Bol (risk/reward) and finding diamonds in the rough like Monte Morris/Tory Craig/Will Barton.
Hate all the "3/4 years away from competing for championships" rhetoric. Tomm is not promise. Compete now! You have 2 Top 20 players right now, with an ALL-NBA defensive guard, who at worst is an excellent trade piece to secure your Big 3, moving forward. Miami is another team proving you dont have to do a full rebuild. Drafted excellent over several years, competed and then identified and secured the All Star they needed to contend.
A healthy team last year would have likely been a Top 6 W.C. team. We are not far off as some may think and the clock is ticking on Ingram staying after his next contract begins. Many of would be future dynasties succumb to cap casualties and other unforseen reasons, i.e. 2010's Phx Suns (Nash, Stoudemire, Marion) OKC (Harden trade) Bulls (Rose, Butler, Noah), current Philly team and possibly Golden State.
No need to do a full rebuild. Getting Zion and the Lakers trade, secured 2nd star player in the deal along with maybe a 3rd/4th option in Lonzo and a 6th man in Hart, plus Hayes, allowed for us to bypass that approach, almost entirely. You dont sign/re-sign All Star caliber players in a small market when tanking or not in position to contend for chips.
This team is built for now, with a few key moves. The moves I mentioned are to have the majority of the team solidified, with only the final piece of the Big Three needing to be identified and we can contend for the next half-decade, which may be all what Zion gets out of his unique body type. Not unreasonable to assume our timeline/window is shorter than most bc Zion may not last/be All-Star caliber for a decade, if he even stays past the 2nd contract. The window is now has to be the approach.
This post was edited on 9/19/20 at 2:59 pm
Posted on 9/19/20 at 3:01 pm to irvchilichill1
How many words on 1 page can be filled up with players that most likely won't be on our team or would mean very little to our future success.
Posted on 9/19/20 at 3:49 pm to irvchilichill1
Giles has the ability to hit mid-range jumpers and good shooting mechanics to develop a consistent 3 pt shot. Small sample size but look at his shooting breakdown.
Giles has also connected on 27 of his 58 mid-range jumpers this season. He shot 56.0 percent from the field and 76.7 percent on his free throw attempts. The 22-year-old can shoot the ball. He has good shooting mechanics, high arch and FT% suggests he has ability to shoot 3's with focused development by a team. He's only played 2 years (missed entirety of his rookie year with injury) and 1 year of college. Says he could always shoot 3 ball just never needed to/wasnt asked to. Hit several 3's in the bubble scrimmage games before season resumed and Holmes reclaimed starting role. Was asked to be more of a facilitator on the low block for 2nd team bc of passing prowess.
Giles averages 16.5 points per 36 minutes this season. He is a capable shooter and rebounder too. Those traits alone should have teams calling on the young big man.
Giles has also connected on 27 of his 58 mid-range jumpers this season. He shot 56.0 percent from the field and 76.7 percent on his free throw attempts. The 22-year-old can shoot the ball. He has good shooting mechanics, high arch and FT% suggests he has ability to shoot 3's with focused development by a team. He's only played 2 years (missed entirety of his rookie year with injury) and 1 year of college. Says he could always shoot 3 ball just never needed to/wasnt asked to. Hit several 3's in the bubble scrimmage games before season resumed and Holmes reclaimed starting role. Was asked to be more of a facilitator on the low block for 2nd team bc of passing prowess.
Giles averages 16.5 points per 36 minutes this season. He is a capable shooter and rebounder too. Those traits alone should have teams calling on the young big man.
Posted on 9/19/20 at 4:22 pm to irvchilichill1
Draft : Okoro
FA : Sign Ingram
FA : Not Sign Okafor, Thornwell, Favors , Jackson
FA : Try to take VanVleet and Nerlens Noel
FA : Sign Ingram
FA : Not Sign Okafor, Thornwell, Favors , Jackson
FA : Try to take VanVleet and Nerlens Noel
Posted on 9/19/20 at 5:17 pm to nicj4
Van Fleet is unrealistic in my opinion. Gonna command too much salary. And still doesnt address what to do with Jrue.
Fred is a scoring PG. Would be great off the bench but do you see him as part of a Big 3? Bc he is about to get paid like one or close to it. Our problem wasnt scoring, it was defense, coaching, poor bench play and asking Jrue to guard elite SF's at 6'3 and expecting him to contain MVP giants. Retarded. Cant tell u how many offensive rebounds in critical moments that Lebron, KD, Giannis would get after Jrue played good defense on that type of player, only to give up a immediate putback bc of sheer physics. A true disservice to Jrue actually and to not have addressed said glaring need after the playoff run was part of Demps demise, but i digress.
This team needs length. Van Fleet couldnt contain Jaylen Brown, Kemba nor Marcus Smart.. Even Wannamaker did well against him.
Lonzo is a better passer, rebounder, defender and shooting is comparable from this year (3pt. %: Lonzo 37% vs. Van Fleet 40%).
Lonzo is 6'6. Fleet maybe 6'0. Lonzo is 4 years younger.
Spending what Van Fleet is about to get, I would want more. Fleet may be better today, but Lonzo could be better by tonight.
Better to utilize those resources on getting someone or 2, who can guard the Lebron's, KD's, Giannis, Kwahi's of the world or your not going anywhere. A Jonathan Issac (Orl.) is the prototype. Signing Jeramie Grant would be a good start to truly considering yourself contenders.
Grant Riller will be Van Fleet in 2 years, at a fraction of the cost.
Fred is a scoring PG. Would be great off the bench but do you see him as part of a Big 3? Bc he is about to get paid like one or close to it. Our problem wasnt scoring, it was defense, coaching, poor bench play and asking Jrue to guard elite SF's at 6'3 and expecting him to contain MVP giants. Retarded. Cant tell u how many offensive rebounds in critical moments that Lebron, KD, Giannis would get after Jrue played good defense on that type of player, only to give up a immediate putback bc of sheer physics. A true disservice to Jrue actually and to not have addressed said glaring need after the playoff run was part of Demps demise, but i digress.
This team needs length. Van Fleet couldnt contain Jaylen Brown, Kemba nor Marcus Smart.. Even Wannamaker did well against him.
Lonzo is a better passer, rebounder, defender and shooting is comparable from this year (3pt. %: Lonzo 37% vs. Van Fleet 40%).
Lonzo is 6'6. Fleet maybe 6'0. Lonzo is 4 years younger.
Spending what Van Fleet is about to get, I would want more. Fleet may be better today, but Lonzo could be better by tonight.
Better to utilize those resources on getting someone or 2, who can guard the Lebron's, KD's, Giannis, Kwahi's of the world or your not going anywhere. A Jonathan Issac (Orl.) is the prototype. Signing Jeramie Grant would be a good start to truly considering yourself contenders.
Grant Riller will be Van Fleet in 2 years, at a fraction of the cost.
This post was edited on 9/19/20 at 5:36 pm
Posted on 9/19/20 at 5:42 pm to irvchilichill1
Hard pass on Okoro. U can find athletic, average SF defenders who cant shoot, all day in the G-League, oversees, etc.
Need a true 3&D player. This draft has several of those but Okoro is vastly ovverated and if we dont move up, then hopefully he takes up 1 more spot in order for the Neismith or Bey to fall to us!
Need a true 3&D player. This draft has several of those but Okoro is vastly ovverated and if we dont move up, then hopefully he takes up 1 more spot in order for the Neismith or Bey to fall to us!
Posted on 9/19/20 at 7:15 pm to irvchilichill1
Okoro is already an elite defender. His stroke looks great. A year of working with Vinson and guaranteed he will be hitting at 35+% on his 3's.
Posted on 9/19/20 at 9:50 pm to CP3forMVP
quote:What "value chart" are you referring to? I did know know one existed for the NBA.
The value chart says 8 & 13 can get you up to 2,
Posted on 9/19/20 at 9:56 pm to irvchilichill1
quote:It is so silly to quote a "per 36" for a guy who struggles to get 14 minutes. Yet, you are projecting him as a starting caliber center.
His per 36 is basically what you would hope Favors would do, without the bloated contract.
Posted on 9/20/20 at 12:07 am to nicj4
Why do so many in this thread want to draft Okoro? I'm not intrigued by him at all.
Posted on 9/20/20 at 12:56 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
Resign Favors 5/125
Actual dell Demps move right here...
Posted on 9/20/20 at 12:59 am to RUFshreve
quote:
Why do so many in this thread want to draft Okoro? I'm not intrigued by him at all.
I’ve seen a lot of reports that think he could become a star If he learns how to shoot.
Posted on 9/20/20 at 5:44 am to RUFshreve
He's a guy that will go in our range, already an elite defender, but his shot needs a little work. It looks good, just doesn't fall.
He could be the 3&D small forward we need when we go against the Lebron's and KD's.
He could be the 3&D small forward we need when we go against the Lebron's and KD's.
Posted on 9/20/20 at 8:48 am to Soggymoss
Okoro has Al-Farouq Aminu written all over him, and I think that’s fine, Aminu has started 431 in the league, but where should a guy like that go in the draft?
Posted on 9/20/20 at 8:50 am to Townedrunkard
quote:
Actual dell Demps move right here...
I tried my best to think like him.
Posted on 9/20/20 at 8:54 am to CP3forMVP
Any other draft, late teens to mid 20's
This draft being devoid of talent pushes him up the board. Sure there's others with higher upside, but they also have a far lower floor. We already have 2 of these project types in Hayes and NAW, I would prefer to go a little bit safer on our picks this year.
This draft being devoid of talent pushes him up the board. Sure there's others with higher upside, but they also have a far lower floor. We already have 2 of these project types in Hayes and NAW, I would prefer to go a little bit safer on our picks this year.
Posted on 9/20/20 at 11:20 am to Soggymoss
I have seen the threads for the proposed Holiday trade to the Warriors. What would we get if we traded Ingram to the Warriors instead? Ingram supposedly has more value than Holiday. Would we get more?
IMO, Ingram and Wiggins are basically the same player. Ingram is a little bit taller/longer. But Wiggins is a better athlete. Their stats and %s are close, though Ingram shoots better. Wiggins gets downgraded due to his contract, but Ingram will be making more next year.
So if we can get Wiggins, to replace Ingram at SF. Plus we get the 2nd pick and maybe another future pick. Wouldn't that be a huge win? If we can get Edwards at 2 then we have another huge rebuilding block to pair with Zion. Good/bad?
IMO, Ingram and Wiggins are basically the same player. Ingram is a little bit taller/longer. But Wiggins is a better athlete. Their stats and %s are close, though Ingram shoots better. Wiggins gets downgraded due to his contract, but Ingram will be making more next year.
So if we can get Wiggins, to replace Ingram at SF. Plus we get the 2nd pick and maybe another future pick. Wouldn't that be a huge win? If we can get Edwards at 2 then we have another huge rebuilding block to pair with Zion. Good/bad?
Posted on 9/20/20 at 11:29 am to brmark70816
quote:
I have seen the threads for the proposed Holiday trade to the Warriors. What would we get if we traded Ingram to the Warriors instead? Ingram supposedly has more value than Holiday. Would we get more?
I doubt it. The Warriors are already giving up 2 very valuable picks in the #2 this year and a Minnesota pick that's top 3 protected in 2021 and unprotected in 2022. The only other expendable assets the Warriors have would be their own future picks which I don't think are that valuable unless they're way in the future.
quote:
So if we can get Wiggins, to replace Ingram at SF.
Maybe on paper they aren't too different, but Ingram has become a team leader and a guy wanting to take the last shot that we want taking the last shot. Ingram also improved to 46/39/85 last season, he's not far from joining the elite shooting 50/40/90 club. Wiggins shot 44/33/71.
There's a reason that the same teams would give Ingram a max deal yet require the #2 to take on Wiggins.
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