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1
Posted on 8/3/17 at 12:03 pm to NOFOX
quote:
Name a SF that Moore would be guarding that would frick us in a small ball lineup?
I like Moore a lot because he can do his job clearly very well and a jack of all trades type of player, but defensively he is closer to average than being above average.
All because we play small ball doesn't mean other teams have to. Other teams with an athletic enough big would be fine with their normal lineup.
If we put out Rondo-Holiday-Moore-Hill-Davis, a team like SA can still just trot out Parker-Green-Gay-Kawhi-LMA and be fine.
OKC could just leave it as Westbrook-Roberson-George-Patterson-Adams and be okay.
Minnesota's starting lineup is this: Teague-Butler-Wiggins-Dieng-KAT
against the average team, we'd be okay in spurts, but against most playoff teams Moore isn't going to stop them.
Posted on 8/3/17 at 12:09 pm to htran90
quote:
If we put out Rondo-Holiday-Moore-Hill-Davis, a team like SA can still just trot out Parker-Green-Gay-Kawhi-LMA and be fine.
Tell me why Boogie would be sitting when all of SA's starters are in the game? Same with OKC and Minny?
Moore as a starting 3 is not a primary option. We aren't starting or finishing the game without Boogie in the lineup. Moore can play as a backup 3 unless they are playing a bigger lineup (which is rarer and rarer these days) in which DC is the backup 3.
Posted on 8/3/17 at 12:14 pm to htran90
quote:
against the average team, we'd be okay in spurts, but against most playoff teams Moore isn't going to stop them.
To me that's a problem for next year. Just make the playoffs this year and hopefully next year you can get the SF version of Rondo or Clark in FA.
Posted on 8/3/17 at 12:25 pm to NOFOX
the problem the Pels will have in crunch time is when teams play smaller. you put Kawhi/LeBron/Durant at the 4 and Davis is having to guard them. Davis is great, but that's not gonna work. and teams with mobile bigs are going to test Cousins again and again in PnR. he has ability, but hasnt shown consistency to hold up
even if someone like Houston goes Paul/Harden/Ariza/Tucker/Capela (obviously much less of a problem than above) you still have Davis, your best rim protector standing by a guy in the corner and Boogie being put in PnR after PnR. maybe you can switch Davis and Cousins and survive that particular problem or maybe they just run a 1/4 PnR
like ATL says, those are next level issues to think about. be competent, make the playoffs and buy some more time to try to solve them.
even if someone like Houston goes Paul/Harden/Ariza/Tucker/Capela (obviously much less of a problem than above) you still have Davis, your best rim protector standing by a guy in the corner and Boogie being put in PnR after PnR. maybe you can switch Davis and Cousins and survive that particular problem or maybe they just run a 1/4 PnR
like ATL says, those are next level issues to think about. be competent, make the playoffs and buy some more time to try to solve them.
This post was edited on 8/3/17 at 12:26 pm
Posted on 8/3/17 at 12:47 pm to corndeaux
quote:
even if someone like Houston goes Paul/Harden/Ariza/Tucker/Capela (obviously much less of a problem than above) you still have Davis, your best rim protector standing by a guy in the corner and Boogie being put in PnR after PnR. maybe you can switch Davis and Cousins and survive that particular problem or maybe they just run a 1/4 PnR
I think the Pels do just what you said and put Boogie on Tucker. I feel confident that Erman will have a solution for protecting Boogie from getting switched onto a CP3/Harden and making Tucker beat us. Having Jrue/Hill as on ball defenders who are excellent fighting through screens helps a ton. I think anytime we play against small ball lineups Boogie is the stretch 4 and AD is the 5.
Posted on 8/3/17 at 2:39 pm to NOFOX
quote:
Tell me why Boogie would be sitting when all of SA's starters are in the game? Same with OKC and Minny?
because if we're going "small ball", than we aren't going to be playing 2 7fters.
quote:
Tell me why Boogie would be sitting when all of SA's starters are in the game? Same with OKC and Minny?
SA's traditional starters look more like Parker-Green-Kawhi-LMA-Gasol.
That's also the point, those are OKC's and Minny's starting line up. That's how they would match OUR personnel's "small ball"
quote:
Moore as a starting 3 is not a primary option. We aren't starting or finishing the game without Boogie in the lineup. Moore can play as a backup 3 unless they are playing a bigger lineup (which is rarer and rarer these days) in which DC is the backup 3.
Spurts is one thing, but trying to make a 3-guard line up a "thing" didn't work before and it probaly won't work now unless we're leaning heavily on QPon/Miller at the 3 in those line ups, not Moore. Those teams who play elite small ball aren't adding another 6'4 guard, they're adding another 6'6+ wing.
Curry-Thompson-Durant-Green-Zaza becomes Curry-Thompson-Iggy-Durant-Green or San Antonio replacing Gasol with Gay. Hell, even a 3-guard line up of Paul-Gordon-Harden would be hard to keep up defensively.
This post was edited on 8/3/17 at 2:45 pm
Posted on 8/3/17 at 2:50 pm to htran90
quote:
because if we're going "small ball", than we aren't going to be playing 2 7fters.
I just can't see Cousins semi-regularly sitting out the 4th quarter of games like happened last season when they went "small".
quote:
Gentry added that the Pelicans can play “small ball with 7-foot guys.”
quote:
Spurts is one thing, but trying to make a 3-guard line up a "thing" doesn't work. Those guys who play small ball efficiently aren't adding another guard. they're adding another 6'6+ wing.
Yeah, when the defense has been bad it's usually because the perimeter defenders couldn't stop penetration. It all depends on whether we get Good Rondo or Disinterested Rondo. In theory you can have at least 2 of Rondo/Holiday/Hill/Moore on the floor at all times which should make the perimeter defense pretty solid assuming Good Rondo and not a beast at SF. When you have a top SF, Hill will need more minutes and maybe Dante if it's a bigger SF like LeBron.
Posted on 8/3/17 at 3:05 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
When you have a top SF, Hill will need more minutes and maybe Dante if it's a bigger SF like LeBron.
Hill was actually pretty solid against LeBron last season.
Posted on 8/3/17 at 3:09 pm to htran90
quote:
because if we're going "small ball", than we aren't going to be playing 2 7fters.
If Boogie's conditoning improves to where he is a better defender and can run more, then as Gentry said we can play “small ball with 7-foot guys.”
quote:
SA's traditional starters look more like Parker-Green-Kawhi-LMA-Gasol.
That's also the point, those are OKC's and Minny's starting line up. That's how they would match OUR personnel's "small ball"
We don't just play a 3 guard lineup regardless of the opposition,. If for whatever reason Boogie is out and they trot out a lineup that would match Moore on someone he is incapable of guarding then Moore gets subbed out for DC or Darius Miller depending on the opposing player.
Parker - Jrue
Green - Rondo
Kawhi - Hill
Gay - Miller/DC
LMA - AD
And if it is the end or start of the game, then I would expect Boogie on LMA and AD on Gay.
OKC
Westbrook - Jrue
Roberson - Rondo/Moore
George - Hill
Patterson - AD
Adams - Boogie
Minny
Teague - Rondo
Butler - Jrue
Wiggins - Hill
Dieng/Taj - Boogie
KAT - AD
This post was edited on 8/3/17 at 3:36 pm
Posted on 8/3/17 at 3:19 pm to Jester
quote:
Hill was actually pretty solid against LeBron last season.
Yeah, but I'm talking about in the context of playing a guard at SF in a Small Ball lineup. If the SF is big you need either Hill or Dante at SF, not a guard or even one of the SG/SF guys like Darius Miller/QPon.
Posted on 8/3/17 at 3:29 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
Yeah, but I'm talking about in the context of playing a guard at SF in a Small Ball lineup. If the SF is big you need either Hill or Dante at SF, not a guard or even one of the SG/SF guys like Darius Miller/QPon.
It makes no sense to play a 3 guard lineup against premier SF's. I don't really see the conundrum. If we play a top 5 type SF, Hill will be in the game at least 90% of the minutes that SF plays. Either Miller or DC will likely guard them the other 5-10% of the time depending on size.
When the tope 5 SF goes out, then you can sub in Moore.
Posted on 8/3/17 at 3:35 pm to NOFOX
quote:
If Boogie's conditoning improves to where he is a better defender and can run more, then as Gentry said we can play “small ball with 7-foot guys.”
It's kind of a description. I wouldn't call Boogie-AD on the court at the same time "small ball", but just our go-to line up.
quote:
We don't just play a 3 guard lineup regardless of the opposition,. If for whatever reason Boogie is out and they trot out a lineup that would match Moore on someone he is incapable of guarding then Moore gets subbed out for DC or Darius Miller depending on the opposing player.
I'm saying if Dell is trying to push "3-guard line ups", it isn't working. Game situation matters and will dictate the line up, but this was all a response to someone saying didn't the 3 guard line up backfire before.
The answer was yes and still would be yes if he's pushing for a 3-guard line up.
Posted on 8/3/17 at 3:38 pm to NOFOX
quote:
Erman will have a solution for protecting Boogie from getting switched onto a CP3/Harden and making Tucker beat us. Having Jrue/Hill as on ball defenders who are excellent fighting through screens helps a ton
yeah. Cousins seemingly has the ability to help solve the problem himself, but we have to see it more often.
the video in this tweet was pretty interesting and germane to this convo. LINK
quote:
Fun exercise: Go through this from @HalfCourtHoops and see who OKC is picking on.
quote:
The guy guarding the screener is almost always the opponent’s worst defender, and involving them heavily opens up a lot of opportunities.
it's just 5 minutes of Russ high PnR (Ram Slide). i imagine we'll see a lot of that type of action thrown at Cousins regardless of who he is guarding.
Posted on 8/3/17 at 3:44 pm to htran90
quote:
this was all a response to someone saying didn't the 3 guard line up backfire before.
The answer was yes and still would be yes if he's pushing for a 3-guard line up.
running this iteration of it would be somewhat risky, but i like this mix of guards more than Holiday/Gordon/Evans. it's not more talented, but i think they complement or, rather, are more willing to complement each other better
and i think playing going 3 guard w/ Davis+Cousins playing behind them would be interesting. if they get defensively engaged Cousins and defensively engaged Rondo, that could cover up for a lot of the size deficiencies
Posted on 8/3/17 at 3:55 pm to htran90
quote:
It's kind of a description. I wouldn't call Boogie-AD on the court at the same time "small ball", but just our go-to line up.
I think Gentry simply meant that we are in the unique position to keep 2 7 footers on the floor against teams who try to go small because of their versatility both offensively and defensively (assuming better conditioning/effort on the part of Boogie).
quote:
Game situation matters and will dictate the line up, but this was all a response to someone saying didn't the 3 guard line up backfire before.
Yeah, got off topic. We won't be pushing 3 guard lineups as Hill/Boogie/AD/Jrue will all get 30 or more minutes. When Dell was pushing it before, he dictated it through the salary/talent structure. We will be using them in the middle of games (against 2nd units) as you say as situation dicates.
Similar to last year where we had ~116 mintues combined of either AD or Boogie with DC and then Frazier/Moore/Grits. 56 minutes with AD at +16, 57 minutes with Boogie at +6.1. But we upgraded on Frazier and Grits.
This post was edited on 8/3/17 at 4:17 pm
Posted on 8/3/17 at 4:08 pm to corndeaux
quote:
the video in this tweet was pretty interesting and germane to this convo. LINK
quote:
Seems cherry picked in the beginning. Against Russ, I would let Boogie not even defend the screen and sag back like some of the defenders in the beginning. I will let Russ pick on us by jacking up pull-up 3's all day long. If he is hitting those, you are screwed anyways. Russ will always be a load driving, but Jrue has to try to fight through and Boogie has to occupy space to try to alter his approach or goad him into a midrange.
Teams will try to pick on Boogie defensively, but honestly if we have Rondo engaged along with Jrue and Solo backed up by AD's rim protection, we will be able to mask a lot. If just his conditioning/effort is improved and we aren't playing 4 on 5, we should be fine (Warriors excluded).
Posted on 8/3/17 at 4:25 pm to NOFOX
quote:
Teams will try to pick on Boogie defensively
It sounds like part of why he got in shape was to play defense.
quote:
“Being able to move easier (and having) less stress on your joints, knees and feet,” Cousins listed of the benefits of being lighter. “Also being able to keep up with the pace at all times. The game has changed in this so-called, small-ball era. I have to be able to move where I can guard almost every position. You can’t be a bulky big man anymore, because it’s not just about banging in the post. It’s about switching basically every position. There are some nights where I might have to end up guarding a point guard. So I have to prepare myself for those situations.
“I really wanted to focus on my body this summer. I kind of let myself go in the second half of the season last year. I got in a place where I didn’t really want to be, so my main focus (this offseason) was to get in tip-top shape. I really wanted to transform my body to fit our offense, and I felt this would better myself and my team.”
LINK
Posted on 8/3/17 at 4:36 pm to TigerinATL
Cousins is listed at 270lbs and IIRC Davis said he's set at being 250-255(?).
Imagine if Cousins drops about 10 lbs and better conditioned. He's arguably the most physically imposing center in the league, him being faster while still maintaining his dominance would be huge. A PF-C Duo that averages 55/20/5 would be amazing
Imagine if Cousins drops about 10 lbs and better conditioned. He's arguably the most physically imposing center in the league, him being faster while still maintaining his dominance would be huge. A PF-C Duo that averages 55/20/5 would be amazing
Posted on 8/3/17 at 8:05 pm to htran90
I may be taking crazy pills, but if we're finishing games with 3 guards, I see Jrue defending the more offensively talented SFs over Moore.
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