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re: Pels sign Ian Clark per Shams

Posted on 8/2/17 at 9:12 pm to
Posted by htran90
BC
Member since Dec 2012
31889 posts
Posted on 8/2/17 at 9:12 pm to
Demps can't get it back for me honestly. If we were to ever win much, it's because he got lucky (ad/cousins) more than because of gm'ing.

I can't give him credit for the two largest no brainers in team history. His decisions (asik, ajinca, etc) won't be why we win.

For every decent decision, it's countered by an equally horrid decision and this current team wasn't constructed on a vision but sheer luck.
Posted by whatiknowsofar
hm?
Member since Nov 2010
25772 posts
Posted on 8/2/17 at 9:17 pm to
We should be very grateful that Minny drafted Dunn instead of Buddy.
Posted by Silverfoxx
Member since Mar 2016
1115 posts
Posted on 8/2/17 at 11:44 pm to
Didn't the whole 3 guard lineup up with Dell backfired with us before with Evans, Holiday, and Puddin?

I know health was a factor, but when healthy, we lacked length to defend.
Posted by htran90
BC
Member since Dec 2012
31889 posts
Posted on 8/3/17 at 12:27 am to
quote:

Didn't the whole 3 guard lineup up with Dell backfired with us before with Evans, Holiday, and Puddin?

I know health was a factor, but when healthy, we lacked length to defend.




yes and it won't get any better if we deploy it again.
PG:
6'1 - Rondo
6'4 - Holiday

SG:
6'3 - Clark
6'4 - Moore

Combo?:
6'5 - Crawford

I guess if you expect QPon to contribute significantly, he's 6'7 so they could deploy him.

But any of those other 5 as "SF", nope...so fricked
Posted by Colonel Flagg
Baton Rouge
Member since Apr 2010
23373 posts
Posted on 8/3/17 at 7:00 am to
quote:

We should be very grateful that Minny drafted Dunn instead of Buddy.


Crazy to think Buddy was traded for Cousins and Dunn was a big part of a trade for Butler.
Posted by CelticDog
Member since Apr 2015
42867 posts
Posted on 8/3/17 at 7:45 am to
Yep, clark can make floaters and while nba has yet to see it, there is possibility he finds his rhythm and turns into 6th man just because he can fire from deep.
Cousins needs to watch gsw film and cultivate clark.

This post was edited on 8/3/17 at 7:47 am
Posted by 504Voodoo
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2012
13766 posts
Posted on 8/3/17 at 9:14 am to
quote:

Does anyone know how he is at running the point?



He is not a good ball-handler and his D is nothing to write home about. You would have to think he will serve in a similar roll as Moore.
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
62446 posts
Posted on 8/3/17 at 9:29 am to
You know how MM said the team didn't want Galloway back because they didn't like his BBIQ? Here's a chart comparing Clark and Galloway last year.



They both were good spot up shooters and bad PnR ball handlers, although Galloway was way worse at that. But Clark was really good at hand offs and cutting, 2 things that Finch likes to use in his offense, and Galloway wasn't good. So even if they are players in roughly the same tier, which seems like a fair statement, Clark looks like he fits how the team wants to play a lot better than Galloway.
Posted by Epic Cajun
Lafayette, LA
Member since Feb 2013
36310 posts
Posted on 8/3/17 at 9:33 am to
What website is that from? I was playing around with it the other day, but I don't remember what site it was on.
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
62446 posts
Posted on 8/3/17 at 9:35 am to
I'm not sure, I saw it in a tweet. LINK

If you remember let me know, I'd like to check it out too.
Posted by Epic Cajun
Lafayette, LA
Member since Feb 2013
36310 posts
Posted on 8/3/17 at 9:43 am to
Just found it:

LINK

According to the graph, Ian Clark is much better defensively, too.
This post was edited on 8/3/17 at 9:45 am
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
62446 posts
Posted on 8/3/17 at 9:49 am to
Thanks
Posted by Crewz
Member since Jun 2014
5093 posts
Posted on 8/3/17 at 9:51 am to
I hope you guys know by now that I am not all sunshine and rainbows, nor am I biased towards the Pels - so having said that, it's not even close IMO. For what the Pels want to do this year, the upgrade from Galloway to Clark is massive. Almost as big as Frazier to Rondo, IMO.

Clark keeps moving, he is active, he moves the ball, he is a much smarter off ball defender. I can go on and on. I didn't love everything this offseason, but this was a very nice move that will pay off.
Posted by Epic Cajun
Lafayette, LA
Member since Feb 2013
36310 posts
Posted on 8/3/17 at 9:55 am to
quote:

Almost as big as Frazier to Rondo, IMO.

According to Duncan, Frazier might even be better than Rondo at this point
Posted by STEVED00
Member since May 2007
23043 posts
Posted on 8/3/17 at 10:08 am to
quote:

Duncan


Jeff Duncan??
Posted by Epic Cajun
Lafayette, LA
Member since Feb 2013
36310 posts
Posted on 8/3/17 at 10:21 am to
Nate
Posted by corndeaux
Member since Sep 2009
9634 posts
Posted on 8/3/17 at 10:27 am to
good numbers and something to look for.

small caveat- for a guy like Clark (rotation player) system matters. teammates matter. we can look at play type data on NBA.com and see that the Warriors led the league % wise in off-ball and cuts offense (and were top 3 PPP in both). while they were last % wise in both PnR ball handler and roll man. that GS system was run by, arguably, the most talented and smartest 4some ever assembled on one roster, with a core that has been together for years. though that doesnt mean Clark has nothing to bring (clearly he does).



Clark being smart enough to know his role and good enough to contribute to that system is a plus for the Pels. that the Pels seem to be moving away from more stagnant offense is another plus.






one interesting thing i saw while looking at the play type data; the Pels led the league in PnR roll man % and scored a healthy 1.08 PPP....which, in hindsight, is a duh. (ball handler was bottom 5 at .80 PPP..... Holiday- 50% of his possessions for .81 PPP, Crawford 30% of his possessions for .83, Moore on 20% for .89, and Rondo, in Chicago, 39% of his possessions for .62 PPP)

in a more free flowing offense, the question is how do you get Davis, in particular, looks on the move to the rim like a roll man without bogging things down to run high PnR or settling for mediocre ball handlers taking shots?
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
62446 posts
Posted on 8/3/17 at 10:37 am to
quote:

the question is how do you get Davis, in particular, looks on the move to the rim like a roll man without bogging things down to run high PnR or settling for mediocre ball handlers taking shots?


I'm thinking DC to AD passing. Maybe the Dribble Handoff can replace some of those PnRs. It's kind of a "new" play that Erman has singled out as difficult to defend. You put the ball in the hands of Boogie who's a good passer, if the opening is there for the guard you hand it off and let him try to get a layup which is better than Rondo shooting a midrange shot, if the opening isn't there it's probably because a guy that should be watching AD has rotated over, so Cousins can flip to AD for an easy score at the rim. Just because they'll have 4 guys in the paint doesn't mean AD/DC can't score on them, especially if they're all 6'9 and under.
Posted by corndeaux
Member since Sep 2009
9634 posts
Posted on 8/3/17 at 10:47 am to
quote:

You put the ball in the hands of Boogie who's a good passer, if the opening is there for the guard you hand it off and let him try to get a layup which is better than Rondo shooting a midrange shot, if the opening isn't there it's probably because a guy that should be watching AD has rotated over, so Cousins can flip to AD for an easy score at the rim


yeah. that makes sense.

also, Davis setting off ball screens then looking to roll/seal/duck in for a feed from Cousins seems like a good staple too. running variations of that with more shooters that worry defenses seems like it would be lethal, but maybe next year


Posted by htran90
BC
Member since Dec 2012
31889 posts
Posted on 8/3/17 at 11:38 am to
quote:

Crazy to think Buddy was traded for Cousins and Dunn was a big part of a trade for Butler.



to be fair, Lavine was the bigger prize
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