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eyeran
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New Orleans
Member since Dec 2007
19802 posts

re: Pels offer Bzdelik a spot.
quote:

We have lost or allowed to leave - Hanson, Penberthy and Erman since last year. Gentry/Griffin seem to be overhauling the coaching staff.
Not worried about this at all. We keep the guys we value most.

Nick Nurse offered Finch a job on his Raptors staff before last season and we told him no.

Hanson might be a fine coach, but his success was largely credited to being Davis' guy. I'm fine with turning over that entire regime over time.


PelicansBay
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Huber Heights, Ohio
Member since Jun 2017
679 posts

re: Pels offer Bzdelik a spot.
The Boston Celtics are hiring former assistant coach Darren Erman as the head coach of their Maine Red Claws G-League affiliate, sources tell The Athletic.


bluebarracuda
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2011
13959 posts

re: Pels offer Bzdelik a spot.
Nailed it, kinda


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Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
1082 posts

re: Pels offer Bzdelik a spot.
quote:

Hanson might be a fine coach, but his success was largely credited to being Davis' guy. I'm fine with turning over that entire regime over time


It should be noted that Griffin has said multiple times now how surprised and encouraged he was with how many really, really talented, good people were already on staff when he got here. From the coaching staff to the front office.

That a lot of it he feels was just not having everyone on the same page, working cohesively, and pointed in the right direction. That there was a lack of synergy so to speak, that he doesn’t blame on them, but that there are a lot of top level guys around this organization.

So I think anyone wanting a long-term flushing of the organization is going to need to realign their expectations or be prepared to be disappointed.

Personally, I’m with Griffin on this. It was always clear that we had good people throughout this organization but that Demps and Tom weren’t maximizing that with the right investments and leadership that Gayle has. We gave Demps credit but I doubt he was single handedly finding every one of the diamond in the ruff players for instance.

This post was edited on 7/27 at 7:06 pm


corndeaux
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Sep 2009
9313 posts

re: Pels offer Bzdelik a spot.
quote:

It was always clear that we had good people throughout this organization


It was?

It was clear to me they didn't have competent leadership and also didn't have enough competent people working in the organization because they were too cheap to pay to strengthen the franchise


Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
1082 posts

re: Pels offer Bzdelik a spot.
Those things aren’t mutually exclusive.

You can have a lot of good people, just not enough of them, while also having those good people stuck under poor leadership and dated or lacking infrastructure.
This post was edited on 7/28 at 10:56 am


corndeaux
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Sep 2009
9313 posts

re: Pels offer Bzdelik a spot.
Right. Not blasting all employees. Absolutely were/are quality employees in the franchise.

Just not sure why it was obvious there were many good people throughout the organization.

Leaders who don't know what they're doing tend to hire people who aren't qualified for the job.


cgrand
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
HAMMOND
Member since Oct 2009
18092 posts
 Online 

re: Pels offer Bzdelik a spot.
I’ll be honest
I knew who the asst coaches were because they were on the bench every night.
I couldn’t have named a single front office person other than demps after connelly left.

I’m sure there were and are good people there then and now, but they were given no shine from above and the man in charge might have been the worst communicator in the history of professional sport. If you want an excited engaged fan has you have to show them the vision and put faces with names


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PelicansBay
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Huber Heights, Ohio
Member since Jun 2017
679 posts

re: Pels offer Bzdelik a spot.
Andrew Lopez: Jamelle McMillan is indeed coming back to New Orleans for a spot on Alvin Gentry’s coaching staff, a source told me this morning.
This post was edited on 7/28 at 12:17 pm


DJ3K
New York Yankees Fan
Member since Dec 2011
4812 posts
 Online 

re: Pels offer Bzdelik a spot.
So is Bzdelik no longer coming?


JohnnyKilroy
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Cajun Navy Vice Admiral
Member since Oct 2012
20610 posts
 Online 

re: Pels offer Bzdelik a spot.
The latest I've seen is that he's coming, but due to contract issues with Houston he isn't officially coming until after labor day.


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70
Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
1082 posts

re: Pels offer Bzdelik a spot.
quote:

Right. Not blasting all employees. Absolutely were/are quality employees in the franchise.

Just not sure why it was obvious there were many good people throughout the organization.

Leaders who don't know what they're doing tend to hire people who aren't qualified for the job.



For me personally, I already mentioned it, it was the scouting and developmental coaches.

As there really isn't a team that has found more diamond in the ruff role players than the Pels. Which in part was due to Demps incompetence, but you still need to find those guys and a lot of organizations just can't. We consistently did and it's doubtful that was all Demps. There are people putting together those scouting reports, compiling film, and presenting them to leadership.

And then there were the developmental guys like Kevin Hanson, Fred Vinson, that helped AD, and aided Gordon/Evans/AD as a cog in reforming their jump shots to notable success.



corndeaux
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Sep 2009
9313 posts

re: Pels offer Bzdelik a spot.
quote:

really isn't a team that has found more diamond in the ruff role players than the Pels


This myth needs to die. Every team in the league can find guys off the scrap heap who can put up numbers in garbage games during a lost season.

Nothing wrong with appreciating unknown guys who show up during a lost season. That should be celebrated, but which guys have really stuck in the league?

quote:

There are people putting together those scouting reports, compiling film, and presenting them to leadership.


You're also assuming the Pels were doing this work internally and not outsourcing it, which is a possibility given how thin the scouting department has been.


Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
1082 posts

re: Pels offer Bzdelik a spot.
quote:

This myth needs to die. Every team in the league can find guys off the scrap heap who can put up numbers in garbage games during a lost season.

Nothing wrong with appreciating unknown guys who show up during a lost season. That should be celebrated, but which guys have really stuck in the league?


Seth Curry, James Ennis, Greivis Vasquez, Marco Belinelli, Ish Smith, Jason Smith, Tim Frazier, Darius Miller, Lance Thomas, Quincy Pondexter, Quinn Cook, and likely Christian Wood and BDJ(RIP)....And you probably could put Robin Lopez in there as he was considered on the fringe of the league before overperforming expectations in Nola.

All players the Pels found and went on to be or cultivated into rotational players on NBA teams. Again, a lot of that opportunity is because injuries and Demps inability to construct a cohesive and balanced roster. But there are a lot of franchises that have needed to find similar hole fillers and failed to do so. The Pels demonstrated a knack for it(and a knack for not knowing how to sell high or know their value, like letting Ennis walk and signing Solo).

quote:

You're also assuming the Pels were doing this work internally and not outsourcing it, which is a possibility given how thin the scouting department has been.


Is there any evidence of this though? If some evidence of that becomes available I will certainly adjust my thinking. But it's worth mentioning again that this is the position of Griffin himself, so clearly the guy most people trust has a good bit of faith in enough of these guys/girls that he's gone out of his way to say so.
This post was edited on 7/29 at 8:11 am


corndeaux
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Sep 2009
9313 posts

re: Pels offer Bzdelik a spot.
That's a pretty liberal use of "found" and "stuck."

Belinelli is one they saved who then played a role on a good team. BDJ (rip) looked like a find too

Hardly think they "found" Quinn Cook, who played 111 minutes in NO, or Seth Curry, who has played on 7 different teams for minimal $$. The rest of those guys are/were just rotational players...on bad teams.

quote:

there are a lot of franchises that have needed to find similar hole fillers and failed to do so


Which ones? We know these guys because we follow the team closely. I imagine other fanbases have little known scrubs they love too

quote:

Is there any evidence of this though? 


No. But the team reference book paints a sad picture in terms of their scouting manpower.

As for Griffin, I don't doubt him. I just also think it makes a lot more sense to praise publicly those who were before him and are still around, even as you look to supplement or replace them.


Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
1082 posts

re: Pels offer Bzdelik a spot.
quote:

That's a pretty liberal use of "found" and "stuck."

Belinelli is one they saved who then played a role on a good team. BDJ (rip) looked like a find too

Hardly think they "found" Quinn Cook, who played 111 minutes in NO, or Seth Curry, who has played on 7 different teams for minimal $$. The rest of those guys are/were just rotational players...on bad teams.


Belinelli was traded for Julian Wright. That speaks to the value of Marco when we acquired him. You can contest Cook but he was a guy the Pels brought through summer league and then back onto the team briefly.

Seth Curry was another summer league find that only left because Demps was too stupid to give him the second year other teams were willing to offer because he wanted to hold onto a bunch of marginal guards that we ended up replacing anyways. Lopez went to a semi-finals Blazers team, Vasquez on a playoff Toronto team. Ennis on a playoff Grizzlies/Rockets team. Ish Smith got 22 minutes on the playoff Pistons. And Jason Smith was still getting 15 minutes on those playoff Wizards teams.

They aren't Robert Covington level finds but we consistently found rotation players in the trash heap or on the fringes of the league over the past half-decade. Many that are getting minutes on solid teams.
quote:

Which ones? We know these guys because we follow the team closely. I imagine other fanbases have little known scrubs they love too



Just go down the list of non-playoff teams. You would be hard-pressed to find any teams that had a hit rate as we did on non-draft, G-league, or fringe NBA players than the Pels did during that time(in part out of necessity form poor management, but you still have to find that talent).

quote:

No. But the team reference book paints a sad picture in terms of their scouting manpower.

As for Griffin, I don't doubt him. I just also think it makes a lot more sense to praise publicly those who were before him and are still around, even as you look to supplement or replace them.

And Griffin did mention they lacked resources and the manpower he wanted. And that it was part of the negotiations with Gayle. Which she was so open to that in part drew him in. And maybe he is playing nice, but given we have brought in other people it seems so far the sentiment is genuine until further notice.


cgrand
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
HAMMOND
Member since Oct 2009
18092 posts
 Online 

re: Pels offer Bzdelik a spot.
i think the assertion that demps & co were some sort of savants in finding undervalued players is indeed overstated. yes he found players on the fringes but so does every other team

there are more NBA players out there than there are roster spots. if you are hanging your hat as a personnel guy on james ennis, then there's a real problem there


Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
1082 posts

re: Pels offer Bzdelik a spot.
quote:

i think the assertion that demps & co were some sort of savants in finding undervalued players is indeed overstated. yes he found players on the fringes but so does every other team




I didn't say they were savant's I simply said for me it made sense when Griffin reiterated that he felt there were a lot of good people on staff that were basically just utilized and led poorly. And part of my rationale for that was the less-known members of the coaching staff and the scouts and personnel around that that we do continue to retain. That despite Demps incompetence seemed to produce good outcomes.

And like I said, part of it was out of necessity, but every year it seemed we found 1 or 2 of those type of players and I am not sure any other similarly poorly performing organization can match that.


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corndeaux
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Sep 2009
9313 posts

re: Pels offer Bzdelik a spot.
So Demps/FO get credit for "finding" and launching Seth Curry, Quinn Cook, and James Ennis (whom Houston, needing wing help for their playoff run, dumped mid-season for a future 2nd mind you), even though they did nothing in NO, playing a combined 390 minutes for the franchise.

Then they also get credit for "finding" and launching 15th pick in the draft Robin Lopez, who played on a conference finalist in PHX, and Ish Smith, who was in the league for 5 years before NO, spent 25 games in town, then traded to PHI for another 50 before heading to Detroit as a FA. Or #20 pick Jason Smith and #28 pick Grievis Vasquez, who was traded to NO for Quincy Pondexter, another guy the FO "discovered" and "developed" only to trade away after 730 minutes of mediocre production.

Seems like you've created a metric that allows you to praise the former regime regardless of circumstance. Bravo.

quote:

Just go down the list of non-playoff teams. You


Come on. Toss out some teams, over a similar timeframe, that are an example of your claim.

ETA-

I totally agree with you on the incompetence part with some of these guys. Even if they were great at finding diamonds in the rough, like you say, they were terrible at capitalizing on their value, either in trades or locking them up longer term. Instead of Seth Curry or James Ennis, perimeter guys who can shoot in a perimeter, shooting league, they give lumbering Ajinca a 4 year deal.
This post was edited on 7/30 at 7:53 am


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LSUneaux
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
NOLA
Member since Mar 2014
2924 posts
 Online 

re: Pels offer Bzdelik a spot.
Just walked past Jeff in the downtown Rouses. I guess this narrative is still alive!


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