- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Pels offer Bzdelik a spot.
Posted on 7/24/19 at 5:28 pm to NOSHAU
Posted on 7/24/19 at 5:28 pm to NOSHAU
quote:Not worried about this at all. We keep the guys we value most.
We have lost or allowed to leave - Hanson, Penberthy and Erman since last year. Gentry/Griffin seem to be overhauling the coaching staff.
Nick Nurse offered Finch a job on his Raptors staff before last season and we told him no.
Hanson might be a fine coach, but his success was largely credited to being Davis' guy. I'm fine with turning over that entire regime over time.
1
Posted on 7/27/19 at 3:32 pm to PelicansBay
The Boston Celtics are hiring former assistant coach Darren Erman as the head coach of their Maine Red Claws G-League affiliate, sources tell The Athletic.
Posted on 7/27/19 at 3:50 pm to PelicansBay
Nailed it, kinda
Posted on 7/27/19 at 6:58 pm to eyeran
quote:
Hanson might be a fine coach, but his success was largely credited to being Davis' guy. I'm fine with turning over that entire regime over time
It should be noted that Griffin has said multiple times now how surprised and encouraged he was with how many really, really talented, good people were already on staff when he got here. From the coaching staff to the front office.
That a lot of it he feels was just not having everyone on the same page, working cohesively, and pointed in the right direction. That there was a lack of synergy so to speak, that he doesn’t blame on them, but that there are a lot of top level guys around this organization.
So I think anyone wanting a long-term flushing of the organization is going to need to realign their expectations or be prepared to be disappointed.
Personally, I’m with Griffin on this. It was always clear that we had good people throughout this organization but that Demps and Tom weren’t maximizing that with the right investments and leadership that Gayle has. We gave Demps credit but I doubt he was single handedly finding every one of the diamond in the ruff players for instance.
This post was edited on 7/27/19 at 7:06 pm
Posted on 7/28/19 at 10:36 am to Bronc
quote:
It was always clear that we had good people throughout this organization
It was?
It was clear to me they didn't have competent leadership and also didn't have enough competent people working in the organization because they were too cheap to pay to strengthen the franchise
Posted on 7/28/19 at 10:55 am to corndeaux
Those things aren’t mutually exclusive.
You can have a lot of good people, just not enough of them, while also having those good people stuck under poor leadership and dated or lacking infrastructure.
You can have a lot of good people, just not enough of them, while also having those good people stuck under poor leadership and dated or lacking infrastructure.
This post was edited on 7/28/19 at 10:56 am
Posted on 7/28/19 at 11:38 am to Bronc
Right. Not blasting all employees. Absolutely were/are quality employees in the franchise.
Just not sure why it was obvious there were many good people throughout the organization.
Leaders who don't know what they're doing tend to hire people who aren't qualified for the job.
Just not sure why it was obvious there were many good people throughout the organization.
Leaders who don't know what they're doing tend to hire people who aren't qualified for the job.
Posted on 7/28/19 at 12:05 pm to corndeaux
I’ll be honest
I knew who the asst coaches were because they were on the bench every night.
I couldn’t have named a single front office person other than demps after connelly left.
I’m sure there were and are good people there then and now, but they were given no shine from above and the man in charge might have been the worst communicator in the history of professional sport. If you want an excited engaged fan has you have to show them the vision and put faces with names
I knew who the asst coaches were because they were on the bench every night.
I couldn’t have named a single front office person other than demps after connelly left.
I’m sure there were and are good people there then and now, but they were given no shine from above and the man in charge might have been the worst communicator in the history of professional sport. If you want an excited engaged fan has you have to show them the vision and put faces with names
Posted on 7/28/19 at 12:15 pm to PelicansBay
Andrew Lopez: Jamelle McMillan is indeed coming back to New Orleans for a spot on Alvin Gentry’s coaching staff, a source told me this morning.
This post was edited on 7/28/19 at 12:17 pm
Posted on 7/28/19 at 12:26 pm to PelicansBay
So is Bzdelik no longer coming?
Posted on 7/28/19 at 12:30 pm to DJ3K
The latest I've seen is that he's coming, but due to contract issues with Houston he isn't officially coming until after labor day.
Posted on 7/28/19 at 12:39 pm to corndeaux
quote:
Right. Not blasting all employees. Absolutely were/are quality employees in the franchise.
Just not sure why it was obvious there were many good people throughout the organization.
Leaders who don't know what they're doing tend to hire people who aren't qualified for the job.
For me personally, I already mentioned it, it was the scouting and developmental coaches.
As there really isn't a team that has found more diamond in the ruff role players than the Pels. Which in part was due to Demps incompetence, but you still need to find those guys and a lot of organizations just can't. We consistently did and it's doubtful that was all Demps. There are people putting together those scouting reports, compiling film, and presenting them to leadership.
And then there were the developmental guys like Kevin Hanson, Fred Vinson, that helped AD, and aided Gordon/Evans/AD as a cog in reforming their jump shots to notable success.
Posted on 7/29/19 at 7:11 am to Bronc
quote:
really isn't a team that has found more diamond in the ruff role players than the Pels
This myth needs to die. Every team in the league can find guys off the scrap heap who can put up numbers in garbage games during a lost season.
Nothing wrong with appreciating unknown guys who show up during a lost season. That should be celebrated, but which guys have really stuck in the league?
quote:
There are people putting together those scouting reports, compiling film, and presenting them to leadership.
You're also assuming the Pels were doing this work internally and not outsourcing it, which is a possibility given how thin the scouting department has been.
Posted on 7/29/19 at 7:53 am to corndeaux
quote:
This myth needs to die. Every team in the league can find guys off the scrap heap who can put up numbers in garbage games during a lost season.
Nothing wrong with appreciating unknown guys who show up during a lost season. That should be celebrated, but which guys have really stuck in the league?
Seth Curry, James Ennis, Greivis Vasquez, Marco Belinelli, Ish Smith, Jason Smith, Tim Frazier, Darius Miller, Lance Thomas, Quincy Pondexter, Quinn Cook, and likely Christian Wood and BDJ(RIP)....And you probably could put Robin Lopez in there as he was considered on the fringe of the league before overperforming expectations in Nola.
All players the Pels found and went on to be or cultivated into rotational players on NBA teams. Again, a lot of that opportunity is because injuries and Demps inability to construct a cohesive and balanced roster. But there are a lot of franchises that have needed to find similar hole fillers and failed to do so. The Pels demonstrated a knack for it(and a knack for not knowing how to sell high or know their value, like letting Ennis walk and signing Solo).
quote:
You're also assuming the Pels were doing this work internally and not outsourcing it, which is a possibility given how thin the scouting department has been.
Is there any evidence of this though? If some evidence of that becomes available I will certainly adjust my thinking. But it's worth mentioning again that this is the position of Griffin himself, so clearly the guy most people trust has a good bit of faith in enough of these guys/girls that he's gone out of his way to say so.
This post was edited on 7/29/19 at 8:11 am
Posted on 7/29/19 at 11:25 am to Bronc
That's a pretty liberal use of "found" and "stuck."
Belinelli is one they saved who then played a role on a good team. BDJ (rip) looked like a find too
Hardly think they "found" Quinn Cook, who played 111 minutes in NO, or Seth Curry, who has played on 7 different teams for minimal $$. The rest of those guys are/were just rotational players...on bad teams.
Which ones? We know these guys because we follow the team closely. I imagine other fanbases have little known scrubs they love too
No. But the team reference book paints a sad picture in terms of their scouting manpower.
As for Griffin, I don't doubt him. I just also think it makes a lot more sense to praise publicly those who were before him and are still around, even as you look to supplement or replace them.
Belinelli is one they saved who then played a role on a good team. BDJ (rip) looked like a find too
Hardly think they "found" Quinn Cook, who played 111 minutes in NO, or Seth Curry, who has played on 7 different teams for minimal $$. The rest of those guys are/were just rotational players...on bad teams.
quote:
there are a lot of franchises that have needed to find similar hole fillers and failed to do so
Which ones? We know these guys because we follow the team closely. I imagine other fanbases have little known scrubs they love too
quote:
Is there any evidence of this though?
No. But the team reference book paints a sad picture in terms of their scouting manpower.
As for Griffin, I don't doubt him. I just also think it makes a lot more sense to praise publicly those who were before him and are still around, even as you look to supplement or replace them.
Posted on 7/29/19 at 12:01 pm to corndeaux
quote:
That's a pretty liberal use of "found" and "stuck."
Belinelli is one they saved who then played a role on a good team. BDJ (rip) looked like a find too
Hardly think they "found" Quinn Cook, who played 111 minutes in NO, or Seth Curry, who has played on 7 different teams for minimal $$. The rest of those guys are/were just rotational players...on bad teams.
Belinelli was traded for Julian Wright. That speaks to the value of Marco when we acquired him. You can contest Cook but he was a guy the Pels brought through summer league and then back onto the team briefly.
Seth Curry was another summer league find that only left because Demps was too stupid to give him the second year other teams were willing to offer because he wanted to hold onto a bunch of marginal guards that we ended up replacing anyways. Lopez went to a semi-finals Blazers team, Vasquez on a playoff Toronto team. Ennis on a playoff Grizzlies/Rockets team. Ish Smith got 22 minutes on the playoff Pistons. And Jason Smith was still getting 15 minutes on those playoff Wizards teams.
They aren't Robert Covington level finds but we consistently found rotation players in the trash heap or on the fringes of the league over the past half-decade. Many that are getting minutes on solid teams.
quote:
Which ones? We know these guys because we follow the team closely. I imagine other fanbases have little known scrubs they love too
Just go down the list of non-playoff teams. You would be hard-pressed to find any teams that had a hit rate as we did on non-draft, G-league, or fringe NBA players than the Pels did during that time(in part out of necessity form poor management, but you still have to find that talent).
quote:
No. But the team reference book paints a sad picture in terms of their scouting manpower.
As for Griffin, I don't doubt him. I just also think it makes a lot more sense to praise publicly those who were before him and are still around, even as you look to supplement or replace them.
And Griffin did mention they lacked resources and the manpower he wanted. And that it was part of the negotiations with Gayle. Which she was so open to that in part drew him in. And maybe he is playing nice, but given we have brought in other people it seems so far the sentiment is genuine until further notice.
Posted on 7/29/19 at 12:34 pm to Bronc
i think the assertion that demps & co were some sort of savants in finding undervalued players is indeed overstated. yes he found players on the fringes but so does every other team
there are more NBA players out there than there are roster spots. if you are hanging your hat as a personnel guy on james ennis, then there's a real problem there
there are more NBA players out there than there are roster spots. if you are hanging your hat as a personnel guy on james ennis, then there's a real problem there
Posted on 7/29/19 at 1:00 pm to cgrand
quote:
i think the assertion that demps & co were some sort of savants in finding undervalued players is indeed overstated. yes he found players on the fringes but so does every other team
I didn't say they were savant's I simply said for me it made sense when Griffin reiterated that he felt there were a lot of good people on staff that were basically just utilized and led poorly. And part of my rationale for that was the less-known members of the coaching staff and the scouts and personnel around that that we do continue to retain. That despite Demps incompetence seemed to produce good outcomes.
And like I said, part of it was out of necessity, but every year it seemed we found 1 or 2 of those type of players and I am not sure any other similarly poorly performing organization can match that.
Posted on 7/30/19 at 7:47 am to Bronc
So Demps/FO get credit for "finding" and launching Seth Curry, Quinn Cook, and James Ennis (whom Houston, needing wing help for their playoff run, dumped mid-season for a future 2nd mind you), even though they did nothing in NO, playing a combined 390 minutes for the franchise.
Then they also get credit for "finding" and launching 15th pick in the draft Robin Lopez, who played on a conference finalist in PHX, and Ish Smith, who was in the league for 5 years before NO, spent 25 games in town, then traded to PHI for another 50 before heading to Detroit as a FA. Or #20 pick Jason Smith and #28 pick Grievis Vasquez, who was traded to NO for Quincy Pondexter, another guy the FO "discovered" and "developed" only to trade away after 730 minutes of mediocre production.
Seems like you've created a metric that allows you to praise the former regime regardless of circumstance. Bravo.
Come on. Toss out some teams, over a similar timeframe, that are an example of your claim.
ETA-
I totally agree with you on the incompetence part with some of these guys. Even if they were great at finding diamonds in the rough, like you say, they were terrible at capitalizing on their value, either in trades or locking them up longer term. Instead of Seth Curry or James Ennis, perimeter guys who can shoot in a perimeter, shooting league, they give lumbering Ajinca a 4 year deal.
Then they also get credit for "finding" and launching 15th pick in the draft Robin Lopez, who played on a conference finalist in PHX, and Ish Smith, who was in the league for 5 years before NO, spent 25 games in town, then traded to PHI for another 50 before heading to Detroit as a FA. Or #20 pick Jason Smith and #28 pick Grievis Vasquez, who was traded to NO for Quincy Pondexter, another guy the FO "discovered" and "developed" only to trade away after 730 minutes of mediocre production.
Seems like you've created a metric that allows you to praise the former regime regardless of circumstance. Bravo.
quote:
Just go down the list of non-playoff teams. You
Come on. Toss out some teams, over a similar timeframe, that are an example of your claim.
ETA-
I totally agree with you on the incompetence part with some of these guys. Even if they were great at finding diamonds in the rough, like you say, they were terrible at capitalizing on their value, either in trades or locking them up longer term. Instead of Seth Curry or James Ennis, perimeter guys who can shoot in a perimeter, shooting league, they give lumbering Ajinca a 4 year deal.
This post was edited on 7/30/19 at 7:53 am
Posted on 9/10/19 at 6:13 pm to PelicansBay
Just walked past Jeff in the downtown Rouses. I guess this narrative is still alive!
Page 3 of 4
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News