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whatiknowsofar
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
hm?
Member since Nov 2010
10344 posts

If Zion is working with Vinson why is everything at the rim?
When even dumbass Marc Jackson knows a 15 foot jumper would open up so much, why hasn't Zion tried this more? I'm not asking for a minimum amount of attempts, but shite man just see if they go in early on and adjust from there.

Zion is going to be dead at the end of games if he keeps crashing towards the rim on every play. I know it's only been 35ish games, but he needs to work on shite now.


Pelefraan 1
Member since Jan 2018
4320 posts

re: If Zion is working with Vinson why is everything at the rim?
You want Zion to learn a new offense and defense, and work on his dribbling and add an outside shot in like 8 weeks?

Let's have some patience here


whatiknowsofar
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
hm?
Member since Nov 2010
10344 posts

re: If Zion is working with Vinson why is everything at the rim?
quote:

a new offense and defense, and work on his dribbling and add an outside shot in like 8 weeks


A 10-15 foot jumper isn't the same tough ask as working on learning an offense, defense, and dribble technique. And again, if he's spending time with Vinson that means he is learning how to shoot so why not work on it during a game?


supe12sta12z
Tiger Town
Member since Apr 2012
4088 posts
 Online 

re: If Zion is working with Vinson why is everything at the rim?
He's 2 for 2 on his pull up jumper this season. The emphasis on offense clearly isn't on his midrange game right now. This is probably by design.

Zion is more dangerous at the rim, scoring, getting offensive rebounds, and drawing fouls. Mid range may not offer those advantages.


Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
3897 posts

re: If Zion is working with Vinson why is everything at the rim?
Being one dimensional does not offer advantages. Being able to hit a mid range or three opens up driving lanes or at least makes teams pay for selling out.

More likely it’s from hesitation, not trusting his shot yet, or simply not having it yet. As there is no world where if he has it in his arsenal we would just be telling him not to use it.


supe12sta12z
Tiger Town
Member since Apr 2012
4088 posts
 Online 

re: If Zion is working with Vinson why is everything at the rim?
I disagree. Teams will always protect the paint against him. He would have to shoot it at an elite level from midrange to even hope for opposing defenses to even blink. If I'm an opposing defensive coach, I would give him that 15-19ft shot 100% of the time. It doesn't even matter if he hits it at a 50% clip from there, he can have that inefficient shot all game long.


Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
3897 posts

re: If Zion is working with Vinson why is everything at the rim?
Defenders will give it to him by default, the same way they do Lebron, that’s why its imperative he learn to make them pay.

We’ve also looked over this before, once Zion sees a lot of defenders his efficiency drops around the rim and he’s prone to live ball turnovers.

A reliable mid range jumper alleviates that, adding a 36% three point shot would turn that into the more efficient shot. A statistically better shot. It is why Lebron has continued to work on improving his jumper throughout his career. You need multiple ways to beat players if you want to be at a superstar level
This post was edited on 1/16 at 11:48 am


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lovepurplelivegold14
LSU Fan
Member since Jun 2014
277 posts

re: If Zion is working with Vinson why is everything at the rim?
All our problems stem from one thing: three point shooting. We can't shoot threes and can't stop teams from making them.

It is very unfair to tell our young player (20!) to develop his game faster because we failed to put a team that fits around him. who are the plus shooters on this team? JJ looks washed. Who else???

You can tell this offseason was sloppy and rushed, and with the pandemic/short offseason it makes sense.

Your job as a team is to make life easier on your stars. Every time Ingram or Zion shoot it's hard. We make nothing easy for them. We've failed them this year.


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higgsBoson
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Democratic Party
Member since Jan 2012
976 posts
 Online 

re: If Zion is working with Vinson why is everything at the rim?
quote:

It is very unfair to tell our young player (20!) to develop his game faster because we failed to put a team that fits around him. who are the plus shooters on this team? JJ looks washed. Who else???

You can tell this offseason was sloppy and rushed, and with the pandemic/short offseason it makes sense.



Yeah I don’t know what people want. It doesn’t matter if Zion tried to take a mid range shot. He will always be more efficient at the rim. And no one will respect that shot anyway.

The team around Zion and Ingram are doing them no favors. Zion taking a mid range jumper, will not help us win. So what’s the point? Practice doing it? When he needs practice on defense, ball handling, passing, creating, free throws... You can only work on so much. A mid range jumper or 3 ball is the last skill Zion will perfect.

The problem is that we have a poorly constructed team. We have some good starters in Ingram, Zion and Adams. Some young bench guys who are good in NAW and Hart. After that it’s really suspect with JJ in this slump. None of those players help you. The Pelicans made wholesale changes this year and some of them were pretty good. Trading Jrue and signing Adams were good moves. Now Griffin needs to make even better moves next year. This year is lost 100%. We should be hoping for a top 10 pick and not a playoff appearance.


Colonel Flagg
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Apr 2010
19737 posts

re: If Zion is working with Vinson why is everything at the rim?
Pelicans 3 PT Shooting

Redick 18-61 29.5%
Ball 20-65 30.8%
Hart 14-44 31.8%
Melli 3-16 18.8%

Total 55-186 29.6%

Last Season 3 PT Shooting

Redick 180-397 45.3%
Ball 148-395 37.5%
Hart 121-354 34.2%
Melli 69-206 33.5%

Total 518- 1352 38.3%

Teams have played zone and completely keyed on BI and Zion this year with double and triple teams. These four players are not helping punish other teams for that. Hart may be forgivable because of his defense assignments, but I think we should have expected his average to go up due to the attention of defenses to BI and Zion.

These numbers are so bad Redick, Ball, and Melli should be off the floor as that was expected to be large part of the reason they were on the floor.
This post was edited on 1/16 at 1:23 pm


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30
Soggymoss
Member since Aug 2018
6216 posts

re: If Zion is working with Vinson why is everything at the rim?
Yep. Its easy to blame Adams being here for lack of spacing, but the fact of the matter is no team is respecting any of our other players and they are just crashing the paint and daring Zion to beat them while leaving the perimeter open.

If everyone can hit their 3 at even a 35% rate, that would open up the offense alot.


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nicj4
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Guadeloupe
Member since Jan 2020
248 posts

re: If Zion is working with Vinson why is everything at the rim?
quote:

The team around Zion and Ingram are doing them no favors. Zion taking a mid range jumper, will not help us win. So what’s the point? Practice doing it? When he needs practice on defense, ball handling, passing, creating, free throws... You can only work on so much. A mid range jumper or 3 ball is the last skill Zion will perfect.

Zion must practice on defense, ball handling, passing etc ofc but he must also have a mid-range shot at least (it would be cool if he has 3 also when he's wide open).

It's important cause :

1) The rim will be locked in PO format. Even Shawn Kemp said that and said Zion must have a mid-range...

2) There's more injury risk with his current playstyle, especially he's undersized and must all the time score on 7'0 guys. That would be less concerning if he was 6'11 and don't use his vertical leap inches like Steven Adams

3) The energy expenditure is really substantial, which means that he will be each time gassed at 4th QT...
This post was edited on 1/16 at 2:44 pm


Pelefraan 1
Member since Jan 2018
4320 posts

re: If Zion is working with Vinson why is everything at the rim?
It's a lot for Zion to work on, but it's all stuff he can improve with reps, practice and good old fashioned work.

People just want Zion to be the GOAT right now because of how exciting he was in college, when that's not realistic

I think it will be telling how much he's improved going into next season

The dude is still only 20 FFS
This post was edited on 1/16 at 2:53 pm


nicj4
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Guadeloupe
Member since Jan 2020
248 posts

re: If Zion is working with Vinson why is everything at the rim?
Zion won't have it all at the same time of course. This is not what we are asking him.
He must of course prioritize what he needs to improve.

Here is my tier list on what he mainly needs to improve

1) Defense and FT %

- Be a two-way player is essential as we all know .
- With his current playstyle, he have many FTs thus he must put them.

It will of course take several months / years to acquire its 2 things.

When this is the case, he will have to improve on :

2) Passing and mid-range

Since he already has good post moves (imo), I amn't talking about it.

- Passing cause he already has an impressive gravity...This will allow him to easily give the ball to a wide open 3 player when he is at post or other.
- Mid-range shot for the reasons I have already mentioned.

His 2 things will be important when he will do PO matches (he will realize it himself anyway...)

Ball handling and creating aren't important for me cause Ingram already does it well and it's normally the role of a PG to be good in these 2 things...
Ihis is why it is necessary to have a good PG for future seasons, which unfortunately is not Lonzo even though he has an elite defense.
This post was edited on 1/16 at 4:06 pm


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Chalkywhite84
New Orleans Saints Fan
New orleans
Member since Dec 2016
9824 posts

re: If Zion is working with Vinson why is everything at the rim?
Why were they only counting on j j


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SammyTiger
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
46393 posts
 Online 

re: If Zion is working with Vinson why is everything at the rim?
BecAuse that’s exactly why teams want him to do.

Unless you’re Michael Jordan chances are you’re never going to be that efficient from mid range.

It would be more useful if the other guys on the team could hit three when Zion dishes out an outlet pass.



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