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re: How concerned should we be with the Preseason performance?

Posted on 10/11/18 at 11:21 am to
Posted by Epic Cajun
Lafayette, LA
Member since Feb 2013
32345 posts
Posted on 10/11/18 at 11:21 am to
quote:

Thats what this all comes down to. And I get Bazemore and Dedmon now. A definite upgrade at THREE spots. Obviously at SF and 4th big. But also, Moore goes back to backup SG and I upgrade significantly there.

This is why I do it.

I think landing one of the other "better" players is a pipe dream, and you have to worry about fit when adding someone mid-season.
Posted by Crewz
Member since Jun 2014
5093 posts
Posted on 10/11/18 at 11:25 am to
And the counter would be: But if you could get by for now and add a real needle mover in February, get to the playoffs as a 6 seed and demolish the 3 seed again and then beat Houston and really push AD in the WCF, then he is definitely staying.

There are good debates on both sides. Nothing is a no brainer right now. Its the age old battle between taking a risk (waiting) that has high potential upside vs. taking more of a sure thing without the major upside.

I will say this: If Dell had moved Asik and a first in October last year, the return would have been far worse than Niko. Sometimes waiting is worth it. Often times its worth it actually
Posted by TeddyPadillac
Member since Dec 2010
25398 posts
Posted on 10/11/18 at 11:33 am to
I agree that i'd prefer to do a deal now simply to get the new players adjusted to the team.

I do not believe that AD is going to request a trade anytime soon. It would be financially retarded to do, and i'm not the least bit worried about that happening next offseason. If he wants to leave $70M on the table, b/c HE couldn't get this team to play better, than see ya later. I'd gladly welcome in the plethora of talent and picks we'd get from Boston or LAL.
I've said it a few times now, if AD thinks he's the best player in the league, then prove it. Your supporting cast of Jrue/Niko/Moore/Randle are more than enough to get you to 50 wins. Westbrook won 47 with a cast that was much much worst. Lebron has done much better with even worst. Harden's been winning 50+ without a 2nd allstar level player on his team. Dirk won a championship with Jason Terry as his 2nd best player. You want to be mentioned with the best players, then prove it on the court.
Posted by DeionDeion
New Orleans, LA
Member since Apr 2010
6110 posts
Posted on 10/11/18 at 11:52 am to
Question I have is what do we really lose in trading for Baze right now?

A chance to rent Middleton or Barnes on the last year and a half of their deals? Porter? Keeping your options open? Just like Teddy said earlier, thats very wishful thinking for probably not a great payout.

I think grabbing Baze & Dedmon now is the play. The positives very much outweigh the negatives imo.

This post was edited on 10/11/18 at 12:02 pm
Posted by Crewz
Member since Jun 2014
5093 posts
Posted on 10/11/18 at 11:55 am to
Thats a nice, hard stance to take. But be prepared to lose him.

If they don't take a step this year, he will ask for a trade. No doubt. He will be fine financially regardless. As for him having enough to win if he is the best player - we all know the counter argument. Its SO much easier to have that impact as a creator. Prime Hakeem could be taken out of a game by the opposition.
Posted by Crewz
Member since Jun 2014
5093 posts
Posted on 10/11/18 at 12:02 pm to
Based on this same thinking, you could have "grabbed" R Lopez last year instead of waiting and getting Niko.

History says that there will be better guys available in February than there are today. Now, can you land them? Questionable. But Dell couldn't have landed Cousins in October of 2016. He couldn't have landed Niko in October of 2017.

Things shake loose.
This post was edited on 10/11/18 at 12:07 pm
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
61434 posts
Posted on 10/11/18 at 12:08 pm to
quote:

Its the age old battle between taking a risk (waiting)


The better run teams tend to be patient and keep their powder dry for unexpected opportunities. That has me fine with waiting even if now it seems we have low odds of landing a wing that's worth it.

This team will be fine as long as it defends well. I don't see how what they are planning to roll out this year isn't better than what they started last season with. Remember that Jrue had a very rough start to the season and looked like the lesser Holiday the first month or 2, Boogie was pouting at officials and making the team play 4 on 5 on defense, and you didn't even have the option of putting a player taller than Jrue on a wing unless you wanted Darius Miller giving up 4 point plays.
Posted by cgrand
HAMMOND
Member since Oct 2009
38620 posts
Posted on 10/11/18 at 12:11 pm to
are we SURE bazemore is good?
Posted by TeddyPadillac
Member since Dec 2010
25398 posts
Posted on 10/11/18 at 12:14 pm to
quote:

Its SO much easier to have that impact as a creator. Prime Hakeem could be taken out of a game by the opposition.


I was sure to add Dirk in my argument. Even Bosh in Toronto was able to get his teams to the playoffs.
Posted by Crewz
Member since Jun 2014
5093 posts
Posted on 10/11/18 at 12:19 pm to
And AD will get his team to the playoffs. But going into his next contract, he will want to know he can win titles. And that takes having an additional 2-3 studs, even if you are the best. You gotta convince him that you have that here and/or you have a very realistic path to getting it
Posted by DeionDeion
New Orleans, LA
Member since Apr 2010
6110 posts
Posted on 10/11/18 at 12:19 pm to
Sure we could've traded for Lopez and I agree that February is the month to shop. But Lopez isn't a SF, the most coveted position in the NBA. And I think it's wishful thinking to believe either the Mavs, Bucks, or Wiz will be in the same position as the Bulls were. Could they be? Absolutely. Is it likely? Doubtful.


In seasons past, I think we could play it loose and fast because we really didn't have an identity or expectations. Now, we have something to protect, the momentum & success we had at the end of last season.


Also Baze is a very "Gentry Ball" type player. Get him
This post was edited on 10/11/18 at 12:27 pm
Posted by DeionDeion
New Orleans, LA
Member since Apr 2010
6110 posts
Posted on 10/11/18 at 12:22 pm to
quote:

are we SURE bazemore is good?


I'm not saying that Baze is a world-beater. But he's a major upgrade over what we have in Solo & Miller. And like MM said, it allows Moore to slide back to his natural spot.
Posted by pawel
Warsaw, Poland
Member since Oct 2016
788 posts
Posted on 10/11/18 at 12:22 pm to
Hawks beat writer was at DuncDOn in September and told that Baze had a career season last year. Not that Hawks were good. But still.

With Barnes/Middleton/Porter we are hoping that they will be bad.
They wont be. This season is do or die for Giannis. And Bud is a great coach.
Dallas is sending lightly protected pick to Denver.

Only hope is Wizz.

Bite this apple, Dell...
Posted by Crewz
Member since Jun 2014
5093 posts
Posted on 10/11/18 at 12:26 pm to
Or two teammates could get in a fight, forcing one to be traded. Or another Jimmy Butler type trade demand could come out of nowhere.

People who try to pretend that they know exactly who will and who won't be available in February (and for what kind of return) are ignoring history. You would have been wrong every year.
Posted by cgrand
HAMMOND
Member since Oct 2009
38620 posts
Posted on 10/11/18 at 12:33 pm to
i say wait just because i don't think bazemore is worth the pick (or the opportunity cost)
if there's nothing else better out there, ride with what we have

Posted by pawel
Warsaw, Poland
Member since Oct 2016
788 posts
Posted on 10/11/18 at 12:33 pm to
Understand.
But the goal is to convince AD ro stay.
The bigger chance is to have a whole season to manage it.

Future is unknown.
Posted by Pelefraan 1
Member since Jan 2018
6706 posts
Posted on 10/11/18 at 12:36 pm to
Also, do we need to target an upgrade at point guard or small forward as the priority?
Posted by DeionDeion
New Orleans, LA
Member since Apr 2010
6110 posts
Posted on 10/11/18 at 12:39 pm to
SF should be the focus of upgrade almost every time imo
This post was edited on 10/11/18 at 12:40 pm
Posted by Crewz
Member since Jun 2014
5093 posts
Posted on 10/11/18 at 12:42 pm to
You have alternatives at "point guard"

You can always downshift Jrue there and they will to close games. There is no legit option at small forward. I mean, people keep trying to talk themselves into Niko or Randle or even AD playing there.

There is no good option. With the improved playmaking of AD and with Randle's skills, you can play Jrue at PG. Nothing on the current roster to solve SF. Thats the priority
Posted by TeddyPadillac
Member since Dec 2010
25398 posts
Posted on 10/11/18 at 2:11 pm to
quote:

And AD will get his team to the playoffs. But going into his next contract, he will want to know he can win titles. And that takes having an additional 2-3 studs, even if you are the best. You gotta convince him that you have that here and/or you have a very realistic path to getting it


He's not going anywhere right now, and the soonest he'd leave would be a year after his first year of his new contract, which would be the offseason of 2021. That means you have 3 years to build a contender, and you have 2 years before AD's salary makes it extremely difficult to add pieces.
There is no need to make rash decision to win now. We aren't challenging the Warriors this year. Be patient and be smart about what you do. AD should know what our path is like you said, and should realize we may not take a step forward this year, but sort of maintain what we did last year.

The Hawks have no reason to lessen the deal at the deadline. It's not like they have to get rid of Bazemore for some reason. They want a 1st for him, and they'll hold out for it. If they don't get it, oh well. Knowing that they want the 1st, i'm not sure i'd do it anymore, but if you're going to do it, you do it now, not at midseason. If you can't make a decent trade at the deadline, might as well keep the pick and look to make one on draft day where you can give two 1sts away.


If AD is on board with being patient, and wanting to have a championship type team here in the near future, then make trades for Bazemore or Batum dont help that. You've got to hold onto as many assets as you can and wait for that big fish to come by. Adding a guy like McCollum or Beal to AD and Jrue would put us in that top 5 tier of teams without a doubt. If you can't add that level of player with Jrue and AD, then you likely will never get to that level, unless AD does indeed become the best player in the NBA, and you get some role players to play above their potential.
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