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VOR
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Lap of Luxury
Member since Apr 2009
56610 posts

re: Bill Simmons says Zion wont be a Pelican in 5 or 6 years


This is just static and white noise. And calculated to be provocative.

One more thing to shrug off and ignore. I will not allow this shite to affect my buzz.


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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
365793 posts
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re: Bill Simmons says Zion wont be a Pelican in 5 or 6 years
quote:

But the idea that because Paul George demanded a trade with two years left, that every star going forward is going to follow his model is silly,

the PG situation is for sure an outlier. other than the Kawhi stuff, his owner had given orders to shed salary

when owners do this, then there is no leverage to keep the player. the player will always be able to say that wasn't what was sold to them


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Handsome Pete
Member since Apr 2019
103 posts

re: Bill Simmons says Zion wont be a Pelican in 5 or 6 years
quote:

The same people a year ago would be saying how the league is going to be nothing but super mega teams, but now Kawhi and Durant made a personal decision and everyone is painting the entire league and it’s players with those two brushes.


Exactly right. All this “player movement” mania really comes down to is KD and Kawhi, who are both unique personalities in unique positions, and were completely free agents.


Handsome Pete
Member since Apr 2019
103 posts

re: Bill Simmons says Zion wont be a Pelican in 5 or 6 years
One thought though: I’m not sure I have a problem with stars demanding trades if their teams are going to get these massive trade windfalls. Anybody here want to reverse the AD trade? OKC want to get Paul George back and lose in the 1st round again? Both franchises are more excited about their futures after losing big stars. If that’s going to be how player empowerment is manifested, I’m fine with it.


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corndeaux
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Sep 2009
9297 posts

re: Bill Simmons says Zion wont be a Pelican in 5 or 6 years
quote:

this “player movement” mania really comes down to is KD and Kawhi, who are both unique personalities in unique positions, and were completely free agents.


Players are turning down $$ to go where they want. That's unusual and antithetical to the entire way the CBA structure was built.

It's a new trend, to say nothing of all the stars using their leverage to get traded while still under contract (Melo, Paul, Kyrie, George, Butler, Davis, etc etc etc).

The Hamptons Warriors were always an anomaly due to Curry's bad ankles and the cap spike. That will never happen again.

Maybe Zion bucks the trend. Maybe not. But, right now, the league is a place where players move because of shorter contracts and the best players are able to go wherever they want (for many different reasons), whenever they want.


TigerinATL
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Feb 2005
51052 posts
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re: Bill Simmons says Zion wont be a Pelican in 5 or 6 years
Players want to play where they want to play. Griffin “building a family”, having a war chest of assets to build around Zion, and having a strong FO with guys like Langdon to maximize the extra draft picks you have is about all we could ask for in terms of giving the Pels a chance to be where Zion wants to play long term.

If Boogie hadn’t been injured I think he and AD would still be here. It’s not a foregone conclusion that players will not stay somewhere, but they won’t stay without giving them what they want and need.
This post was edited on 7/12 at 7:32 am


SLafourche07
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Feb 2008
6106 posts

re: Bill Simmons says Zion wont be a Pelican in 5 or 6 years
Sons, I had a nightmare last night. Griffin told me that he had gotten a call from the Pacers for his dream job and he was taking it. I was shaken but okay because I knew we still had Trajan. Then I turned around and Trajan was on the phone saying he was going on some job interviews.




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corndeaux
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Sep 2009
9297 posts

re: Bill Simmons says Zion wont be a Pelican in 5 or 6 years
I agree. That's all we can ask.

Denying player movement/empowerment is a thing because Simmons said something (negative??) about the Pels/Zion is absurd.

It's not just a generational thing- the league has set up it's rules and has been so successful that it makes sense for some of the very best players to approach where they play in very different ways than we've seen before


corndeaux
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Sep 2009
9297 posts

re: Bill Simmons says Zion wont be a Pelican in 5 or 6 years
Even if the Pels keep Boogie, that clock is still ticking. Teams are under constant pressure to provide what players want/need.

Which is a good thing IMO. Look at how the Pels have stepped up their game in just 2 months. That doesn't happen without Boogie leaving and then Davis torching the organization


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Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
1033 posts

re: Bill Simmons says Zion wont be a Pelican in 5 or 6 years
quote:

Simmons is not the guy who's really thoughtful about it. If people are interested in "player empowerment" era, they should listen to the latest Lowe Post/Full 48 joint pod w/ Lowe, Beck, and Rachel Nichols.



Thats interesting you mentioned that because I was listening to it on the way home...And trying not to be the crazy person yelling at my radio listening to the broken logic and missed counterpoints to Rachel Nichols defending these trends in basketball.

Where she was basically using the Knicks and Lakers loyal fanbase as a justification for why the league is not trending toward a bad place from a fan perspective...Because they suck and people still show up

Which is absurd, and frankly, undercuts her own argument.

Because I would love to have an economic analysis ran on which scenario would generate more long-term growth and revenue for the league: Having a superstar and a solid cast in a glamour market with no other superstar(allowing talent to be better-distributed to markets where talent is actually desperately needed to drive up revenue and generate new fan interest), having a lot of two superstars concentrating mostly in glamour markets, or having three superstars or more concentrating in an even smaller range of glamour markets, breaking competitive balance fully.

I would bet that the upper bound of revenue for those glamour markets would not change too much from scenario 1 to 3. As she said, they sell out no matter what. But scenario 2(which we are in now) and scenario 3(which we could easily trend back to), it would fail to maximize the amount of nationwide interest and revenue it could generate relative to scenario 1. That the product itself is far more interesting and compelling in a league of more balance and parity as well.

Which is not to say you go back to the days of yesteryear, but it would be wise to revisit the structure of the league and, equally important, clamp down on the ways in which glamour markets can abuse the letter and spirit of the league to carve out these outsized advantages so as to promote a league that keeps the fun of player movement but doesn't promote unhealthy trends.
This post was edited on 7/12 at 8:02 am


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VOR
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Lap of Luxury
Member since Apr 2009
56610 posts

re: Bill Simmons says Zion wont be a Pelican in 5 or 6 years
This is 100%. bullshite

The change ( to Pels culture) is real and permanent. It’s a new day. Far Better than I anticipated.


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TigerJeff
LSU Fan
the Emerald Coast
Member since Oct 2006
15919 posts

re: Bill Simmons says Zion wont be a Pelican in 5 or 6 years


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TigerinATL
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Feb 2005
51052 posts
 Online 

re: Bill Simmons says Zion wont be a Pelican in 5 or 6 years
quote:

Because I would love to have an economic analysis ran on which scenario would generate more long-term growth and revenue for the league


I think the answer is both none of the above and all of the above. The Warriors domination initially created all kinds of interest, but that story line was starting to stagnate. Now that it has changed in very dramatic fashion it stirred up all kinds of interest. So for the NBA it's probably good to cycle through these different models/eras rather than aim for one particular team model all the time.

To me the biggest concern is the Owners won't want to accept that they've lost control so they'll try and "fix" the problem in the CBA again. Their last fix lead to star level players getting traded prematurely (Boogie/Butler) and turned star level players into players nobody wants on their teams (Westbrook/Wall).
This post was edited on 7/12 at 8:14 am


Tiger in Texas
Southeastern LA Fan
Houston, Texas
Member since Sep 2004
16443 posts

re: Bill Simmons says Zion wont be a Pelican in 5 or 6 years
He hasn't even played a game yet & they are talking about him leaving in the future??? I put this under desperate sports news 101...totally unnecessary...


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mindbreaker
New Orleans Saints Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2011
4879 posts

re: Bill Simmons says Zion wont be a Pelican in 5 or 6 years
If you go by trends odds are he's right. Also the players that have gotten the full supermax have turned out to be an albatross type contract for those teams. Maybe that changes in 5 or 6 years though. Everyone realizes it's a problem let's see if they fix it


saints5021
USA Fan
Slidell
Member since Jul 2010
6119 posts

re: Bill Simmons says Zion wont be a Pelican in 5 or 6 years
League can fix this...make supermax more valuable and not hit against the cap 100%. Everyone who has taken it has crippled their teams


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31
Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
1033 posts

re: Bill Simmons says Zion wont be a Pelican in 5 or 6 years
quote:

I think the answer is both none of the above and all of the above. The Warriors domination initially created all kinds of interest, but that story line was starting to stagnate. Now that it has changed in very dramatic fashion it stirred up all kinds of interest. So for the NBA it's probably good to cycle through these different models/eras rather than aim for one particular team model all the time.


And the stagnation is the point I'm getting at. It might create a short-term spike, but the long-term trend is likely below the maximum potential of a more balanced league. And those are spikes that can be replicated without such underlying toxifying influences.

Like if I am capable of wishing into existence the optimal path of the league going forward, strictly from a revenue and fan interest(that doesn't involve draconian measures on players), I would argue one where most glamour markets have a competitive team, but that there is an overall cultural sense that small markets, like in the NFL, can do the right things and win it all(not just increasingly be feeder teams and waypoints for superstars to move through onto bigger markets). Which still leaves plenty of room to have some of these dynamic scenarios(remember, the Warriors before Durant were homegrown).

There is just an upper limit on how much the league can thrive if most franchises feel they are locked out from the elite tier unless the perfect storm happens, where the league basically exists to funnel players into two states.


TigerBlazer
Member since Aug 2016
469 posts

re: Bill Simmons says Zion wont be a Pelican in 5 or 6 years
quote:

I can think of only 2 that are currently with the team that drafted them


Don't forget about Lillard,


LSU_30A
Member since Jan 2019
725 posts

re: Bill Simmons says Zion wont be a Pelican in 5 or 6 years
This is why the NBA is the worst of the 3 major American sports. They let the inmates run the the asylum and do as they please, go as they please. Small market teams are basicallyike minor league baseball teams developing young stars to move on to the big team one day. Contracts mean jack shite. All it takes is for one star to have a crush on another star and all of a sudden they are demanding a trade threatening to hang a dark cloud over your franchise unless you do exactly what he wants. On top of that they tell you where they want to go so you don’t even have the opurtunity to really findthe best deal because the player will just tell the other teams he won’t be happy unless he goes to X Team which makes him toxic to trade partners. It’s pathetic and of you watch idiots like Shannon Sharpe on tv hooting and hollering about how he loves how the NBA is run now it just makes it that much more infuriating. The Pelicans got very lucky with the AD mess but it could have been much much worse.


Handsome Pete
Member since Apr 2019
103 posts

re: Bill Simmons says Zion wont be a Pelican in 5 or 6 years
The truth is if we are not contending for championships in year 5 with Zion, he will probably want out and we should trade him. And that’s ok. I think with AD and Paul George we learned that you make the trade with a year or two left on the contract to get a big enough haul for a team reset/rebuild. Small markets can’t let a star walk for nothing, even if you have to give up a year or two early.

Of course, when the Pels are in the finals in Zion years 2-7, none of this will be relevant!


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